To delete, or not to delete VW Backup files, that is the question:

[Mark Aceto]

I’m doing some housekeeping to free up space on my hard drive — up to 32GB of VW Backup files — so I’m interested in where others have landed with best practices.

 

On the one hand, if I have 15 revisions of the same drawing, do I really need any backup files? In practice, I would only need them "in the moment" when VW crashes. That’s the only way I’ve every used them anyhow.

 

On the other hand, I want to "measure twice, cut once" before I scorch the earth behind me.

 

I guess technically, I have them all saved in a Time Machine backup… 

 

Edited December 5, 2020 by Mark Aceto

[Jeff Prince]

I have my backup files save into a folder on my desktop next to my trash can.

At the end of the work week, I clear it out.

By that time, I have saved my files, sometimes with versioning schemes, and dealt with any issues that may have necessitated using said backup.

Before I implemented this strategy, the default backup location got so big that I ran out of storage space.  There were 100s of GBs of files that had accumulated!

I also set up my backup based on number of operations instead of time.

[zoomer]

I also delete my Backups from time to time.

 

Therefore I have set all my relevant App's Backup Folders into a single

local Folder on a fast SSD. So I go through all Apps and their version folders

to delete backups.

 

And from experience, when VW starts crashing and the file is corrupt,

all 3 backups that I keep are corrupt also ... 🙂

[Pat Stanford]

The VW autosave files should not be part of your backup and archive policy. They are great for as you say "spur of the moment" crash recovery or "Oh , why did I do that" times, but thy are next to useless two weeks later when you are trying to find the one from "Before I moved the window, but after we rotated the kitchen."

 

Daily backups are good (in my opinion a must have), but random autosaves more than a day or two old are worthless.

 

Archive: Daily (when worked on) or at a minimum at major points in the design (preliminary submittal, customer approval, submitted for plan check, etc.)

 

Backup: Continuous (Something like TimeMachine), "Bootable" Close of HD (If you store your data on a disk that is not used for booting a computer then just a clone is ok). Daily incremental backups. Nothing is backed up until you have at least three separate copies, on at least two different media types, in at least two different physical locations. Syncing services like Dropbox, iCloud, Google Drive, etc. DO NOT count as backups. They sync so fast that if you delete something from your local copy it is likely to be gone from everywhere before you notice. Web based storage services like Amazon S3 and Wasabi, that you control the sync to, especially if you use a program that does incremental backups and keeps the historical copies do count as backups

[bcd]

Yes, backups & version histories are two separate things.

Delete all backup files frequently, preserve version histories at significant forks in the design tree.

Edited December 8, 2020 by bcd

[unearthed]

Like Jeff set bk based on number of operations.

All bks go into a folder with my jobs folder and get backed up daily. VW backup folder runs at about 6Gb.

When I send pdf/s or whatever to clients I save a vwx copy to a named folder, very useful when you want to step back a decade when something reawakens. 

[TKA]

I keep

1. backup of every major issue/revision.

2. current file on VW auto save.

3. time machine which I found the most useful.  
once project is signed off i remove #1 while keeping pdf of it.  
the only time I needed to go back was always time machine, I would say in the last 10 years.  Though I might be lucky only twice I had a corrupt file I had to replace.

[Mark Aceto]

Thanks for the feedback!

 

For clarification, I’m asking about the Autosave generated files that are stored in the VW Backup folder that I’m now thinking about renaming the VW Autosave folder.

 

Unfortunately, I didn’t start Autosaving all files to ~/Documents/Vectorworks/- VW Backup until recently, so I have to run a minutia marathon to free up that space. At least now I know!

 

BTW I’m still an "Autosave every 5 minutes guy", so part 2 of this poll is:

• How many operations and why (based on your experience)?
  • Also interested in how you manage Autosaving, so that it won’t interrupt rendering
    • Maybe operations vs minutes solves that?
      • Unless you continue working on the file while it renders?

[Matt Overton]

Set Vectorworks to keep 10 not just 1 and Time Machine to keep more.

Harddrive in workstation has little value for existing otherwise might as well use it.

[Pat Stanford]

I use 15 operations and keep the latest 12 versions.  That seems to get me a autosave every 2 to 8 minutes depending on what I am doing. With an average of 5 minutes that means I have about an hour of intermediate backups. I guess I should remember to do real saves at least once per hour.

 

Buy using Operations instead of Time, you know that the autosave will start between other operations and not in the middle of something.

[Matt Overton]

And if you have Vectorworks Logging turned on having back ups set to Operations lets you know which file and at what times you were really working on them. 

[Kevin K]

Personally, I am not a fan of the VW paradigm of creating a backup file. Why?  Because in all my years when you resurrect a backup file it never, ever quite comes back whole. I prefer to use overwrite original.  Plus, as mentioned, Time Machine takes care of faithfully creating a backup.

I auto save every ten minutes. Again, just my preferred methodology.

[markdd]

What is it about the backup file that sometimes causes problems. I have long been aware that the file is stripped back. Am I right in thinking that it is stuff like Resource manager previews and boolean operations that need to be rebuilt?

 

Thanks

[Kevin K]

markdd

It has been a long time since I have used the backup file setting, but in the past, when I did enable that setting, when opening up a backup I would get an error messages stating something to the effect that "not all objects could be regenerated'. Meaning that, for example, there were tons of things in my 3d model that were missing. 

Hence my decision to choose the 'overwrite existing file' which was bulletproof.

So, to address your question, I am not really sure what all was deleted in the backup file. It simply did not work as advertised.

Now, to be fair, perhaps the whole backup scenario works better these days, but I just prefer to overwrite existing file.

[markdd]

@Kevin K

 

Thanks. I have also experienced objects not being able to regenerate - earlier this year in fact - so the problem is clearly there to some extent. It is always objects that have been created using probably too many boolean operations. I think your way of working is a good way to go. I hadn't thought of it in those terms and will give it a try.

[Pat Stanford]

If you choose to go with the Auto Save mode for backups, make sure you have a good archive in place of recent versions. You don't want to find that you have been working away for a few hours and realize that you were in the wrong file, or working with incorrect data and don't have any way to get back to where you were at the start of the day. That is the biggest reason for using the Copy option.

 

But if you files can't be restored from the Copy, then you are out of luck anyway. I have never had a copy that would not reopen. If anyone does see that, please submit both the original file and the corrupted copy as a bug so VW can figure out why it is happening.

[markdd]

5 minutes ago, Pat Stanford said:

You don't want to find that you have been working away for a few hours and realize that you were in the wrong file,

i can't tell you the amount of times I have restored from a backup copy and worked for several hours forgetting that I was in the backup. Close it down for the day. Re-open the following day with what I thought was the correct file, yikes no work! 

 

 

[Kevin K]

markdd

Totally up to you, and perhaps you could respond to Pat's thought about submitting the files to the powers that be so they can analyze the situation.

I will say that definitely having at least one  backup system, like time machine if you are a Mac person,  is absolutely a good idea.

It has saved my bacon on several occasions over the years.

[markdd]

59 minutes ago, Pat Stanford said:

If you choose to go with the Auto Save mode for backups, make sure you have a good archive in place of recent versions. You don't want to find that you have been working away for a few hours and realize that you were in the wrong file, or working with incorrect data and don't have any way to get back to where you were at the start of the day. That is the biggest reason for using the Copy option.

 

But if you files can't be restored from the Copy, then you are out of luck anyway. I have never had a copy that would not reopen. If anyone does see that, please submit both the original file and the corrupted copy as a bug so VW can figure out why it is happening.

I have all my files on Dropbox which has worked perfectly for me for a while now. Their version history works well for me. 

[Pat Stanford]

I use Dropbox, but I don't like or trust it. All I want it to be is a file repository ("A Feature" in Steve Jobs speak). Versioning is part of that. I don't want them adding all of this extra file manipulation stuff like Paper etc.

 

And the thing that drives me most mad is that there is no way to get a link and see if I already have a local copy of the file instead of throwing me to the web. I would pay way more than the $1000K/year we are paying for Business access if I could send a link and let everyone look at their local version.

 

But, I am glad you are happy and it works for you.

[zoomer]

I am so happy to have Apple Time Machine.

Not for real Backups, I use CarbonCopyCloner to manually mirror

whole bootable drives (by multiple copies)

 

But to Undo User Errors.

I need it every 2 years or so. But I can also organize that way my

father's iMac, where he is working in Windows (VM) only.

Can be as often as 2 times a week that he overwrites his text files

with empty files 🙂

[Jeff Prince]

@Pat Stanford I have a client that uses Dropbox for a 20 person firm.  They keep their files on a local server and that is mirrored to drop box.  I don’t know how they have it configured, but if I save a file onto their Dropbox via the web from my home, it shows up in their local storage within minutes.  They have a magician that runs their IT, so that might have something to do with how well it works 🙂

 

[Pat Stanford]

I don't have a problem with how Dropbox operates. It has been smooth and flawless in terms of syncing. We don't even have a local server, but instead let everyone keep a local mirror on their machine. Our Dropbox folder is currently running about 45GB, so this is reasonable. If it were to get substantially larger, then we would need to rethink how we operate.

 

As I said above, the biggest issue to me is not being able to get a link that refers to someone's local copy. I want to be able to send a Dropbox link that opens Dropbox in a web browser if I don't have a local copy but instead shows me (or opens) the local copy it is exists. I don't use, and don't want to use any of there other "offerings" form dropbox like esignatures, or half baked document creators like Paper. I much prefer separate tools that do what I want them to do but store those files on Dropbox. Since they started adding all the other features, they have basically left the "we are a big hard drive in the sky" idea and have stopped making improvements (at least that I can see.)

 

But the local file link idea must be harder than I think because none of Dropbox's competitors have it either. :-(

[Mark Aceto]

I may just go back to relying on my OCPTSD method of hitting Command-S every 10 operations (not mouse clicks) that’s already hardwired into my central nervous system.

 

However… there are scenarios like a Force Quit when VW will unsave all of my saved changes, and revert to the file’s state when I opened it. I think my workaround for that in the past was to duplicate the working file before I forced quit.

 

Additionally, I’m looking at https://www.arqbackup.com to add to my actual backup routine in addition to Time Machine (which has saved my butt more than once but is also its own special brand of Apple abandonware hell).

 

@markdd I once did that with a budget where I removed a line with an internal client fee before sharing it externally with a vendor. By the time I caught my error a week later, I had my work cut out for me (to say the least). I also have the same fear when versioning an open VW file (Save as… or Save a copy… ). I compulsively have to archive it right there in that moment for fear of reopening the old version (which, from experience, I will do). This is also why I only use the cloud for exporting / publishing. Everything else is stored locally.

 

@Pat Stanford I have caught Dropbox in the act. I have zero trust in their system. And, yeah, more “robust” features = bloatware. The cloud is a trap. I only use Dropbox for project sharing (the master project file) and rendering (my new favorite thing in the world). Who’s got 2 thumbs, and never worries if his files are syncing with the cloud? This guy.

 

BTW, grumpy old man rant: I miss the days when you got a new computer, and just copied all your documents, and that was it. Bob’s your uncle. Now I have to perform evasive maneuvers to avoid signing into every freaking cloud service in the walled garden to get up and running… 

[Mark Aceto]

Oh, and here’s a fun Dropbox discovery: