Jump to content
_c_

Support for middle to large architectural projects still not on schedule

Recommended Posts

On 12/4/2020 at 5:35 AM, _c_ said:

Where we have larger projects requiring multiple files VW fails. Features such as

  • Project Sharing
  • Stories
  • Drawing sync items (grids, labels, etc)
  • Data Tags
  • Resource sync
  • real workgroup management (spilt damned preferences from libraries)
  • etc...

cannot be used any longer or with monstrous workarounds.

 

And Edit Section in Place

Share this post


Link to post

I don't think a practice even needs to be that large before breaking things into multiple files becomes a benefit (well were a benefit, more thing are cropping up). Certainly on the output side were viewports of various style are heavy computational objects. Even if we do use Project Sharing we have files that work group reference the core model file to product certain drawing files. I could see how even this wouldn't help larger projects again.

 

Maybe Project Sharing could find how to make "light" or "tuned" working files that only pull the required layers for the task at hand and can "release" parts (Layers) back out of the working file if making these things work between files is to hard.

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

And the viewport obsolescence.

 

This is unavoidable when a project grows and/or you have multiple persons working on it. You end up with tons of empty or senseless viewports.

In environments where you have large turn over of trainees -usually on 6-months basis- it is impossible to keep house clean publishing in the same file where you work.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

And the archive policy.

 

You can archive a drawing made of references old style and a layout, because you can cap references keeping the layers. That's the real publishing.

But you cannot archive sensibly a whole project with layouts in the same file of the geometry because  you are never able to restore the exact things you published, should you need it.

By legal troubles you want that certainty.

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
On 12/7/2020 at 7:58 AM, _c_ said:

And the viewport obsolescence.

 

This is unavoidable when a project grows and/or you have multiple persons working on it. You end up with tons of empty or senseless viewports.

In environments where you have large turn over of trainees -usually on 6-months basis- it is impossible to keep house clean publishing in the same file where you work.

Perhaps a partial solution would be to hire and keep experienced employees rather than using underpaid "trainees" who have to leave and find a real job.  

Share this post


Link to post
11 hours ago, Helm said:

Perhaps a partial solution would be to hire and keep experienced employees rather than using underpaid "trainees" who have to leave and find a real job.  

I take it from that comment the supply of Vectorworks trained staff in your market is pretty good?

 

Certainly a round here VW being targeted at small practice and treating teamwork/3D/Bim/Use of styles/Use of classes/..... as not core skills the training base of potential staff can be hit and miss. Training always has to be a thing but at times it seems cross-training someone from another BIM package is better than trying to upskill an existing VW user.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

Ohhhhhhh, Mr Helm, did I detect a wee bit of biting sarcasm there related to C’s comments 🙂

Now, now, I was told we all had to play nice here.

Share this post


Link to post
5 hours ago, Matt Overton said:

Training always has to be a thing but at times it seems cross-training someone from another BIM package is better than trying to upskill an existing VW user.

 

Ah, LOL, how true is that!

Share this post


Link to post

The length to which a bigger office has to go, can be quiet nicely seen in one of the webinars from this year. The office showed their file and referncing strategy . The complexity shown was something else. Very sophisticated. And one person only busy with the maintenance of all these references. That was not necessarly a presentation in Vectorworks favor. I do admire though their dedication. If I find the video and will link it.

Share this post


Link to post

Hello Elepp,

 

we have a system which doesn't require particular skills and certainly no dedicated person. I consider it highly efficient and scalable, given the circumstances. We use it for every project, from small to large.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
11 hours ago, Kevin K said:

Ohhhhhhh, Mr Helm, did I detect a wee bit of biting sarcasm there related to C’s comments 🙂

Now, now, I was told we all had to play nice here.

Yes I am guilty of going off topic, but I do have a thing, especially here in Italy (she is in Germany), where young architects are taken advantage of being hired on temporary contracts or as interns working for next to nothing with the excuse of training them.  I am sure C does not set the company policy and one could not ask for a better teacher than her.  

Share this post


Link to post
On 12/8/2020 at 11:05 AM, Helm said:

Perhaps a partial solution would be to hire and keep experienced employees rather than using underpaid "trainees" who have to leave and find a real job.  

 

John, while these young ones are indeed not paid much, they are still paid. This is Germany, not Italy, where they even pay themselves, in some particularly bad cases.

 

I do remember that long gone myself struggling to find a job in a country whose language I didn't speak and I had the disadvantage to come from an environment where there was no practicing habit. Italy.

I wished indeed to be given that chance beforehand.

 

As a rule I think that no trainee, ever, came under my teaching without experiencing warmth and the highest degree an respect.

I do like them immensely. I had countless and baked countless sweets for them.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
4 minutes ago, _c_ said:

Hello Elepp,

 

we have a system which doesn't require particular skills and certainly no dedicated person. I consider it highly efficient and scalable, given the circumstances. We use it for every project, from small to large.

Now would it be possible for you to outline the system.

Share this post


Link to post
6 minutes ago, Helm said:

Now would it be possible for you to outline the system.

 

Yes, will do, but not now...

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, Helm said:

Now would it be possible for you to outline the system.

 

1 hour ago, _c_ said:

Hello Elepp,

 

we have a system which doesn't require particular skills and certainly no dedicated person. I consider it highly efficient and scalable, given the circumstances. We use it for every project, from small to large.

My interest is also peaked. 🙂 But I have no doubt about its efficiency. I have seen some of your work and I also had the good fortune talking to you once on the phone about it. A mutual friend here in Hamburg set it up 😉

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

I think it's a real shame that we as users continually feel that we are 'fighting against the machine' so to speak. As a small practice (me + 3 in the drawing office - although they are all wfh just now), the issues surrounding office standards and practices are more acute now than ever more.

 

@_c_ Could not be more to the point. Any practice should want to have systems in place, where one staff member can jump into another's project with little or no 'orientation' for whatever reason: holidays / leaving / off-sick / paternity / maternity - The reasons for this are endless and VW just doesn't help.

 

On 12/4/2020 at 5:35 AM, _c_ said:
  • Project Sharing
  • Stories
  • Drawing sync items (grids, labels, etc)
  • Data Tags
  • Resource sync
  • real workgroup management (spilt damned preferences from libraries)
  • etc...

 

We as a practice have given up on project sharing as it just doesn't suit - too many 'management' protocols and procedures that can and have gone wrong every time we tried it.  The rest of the list is a major concern that just doesn't seem to be getting addressed.

 

So what do practices do? - We just carry on doing our own thing as we have all pretty well resigned to the fact that there is in actual fact very little 'productive' support for the architectural field. I keep hoping that the wishlists that have been going on for years - doors / windows / stairs / walls / roofs etc. will actually be answered and that the tools will 'Work as Required', not just 'Work as Designed', so we don't have to continually have to do 'workarounds' to basically do our jobs.

 

If I were to go off-piste and mention a tool that VW seems to have devoted a lot of time to, but with totally unusable output in real world situations, is the Title Block Manager and the facility to generate drawing registers, issue sheets etc. I do not know a single business anywhere that does not have even the most simple word processing and spreadsheet software and the larger the practice, the more likely there will be a formal drawing management system in place. The unfortunate reality is (and I'm including those practices who I speak to who use REVIT and AutoCAD ), no-one uses the 'in-built' drawing management systems. Wouldn't it be really nice if when drawings are changed and issued, that vectorworks could 'talk' to a spreadsheet (let us worry about how it looks and is formatted) - just give us the codes and datasets to do it (we can all create macros, its not difficult - Microsoft even shows you how to do it on their help screens).

 

Also, please get rid of the Notes Manager - It needs to be re-written from first principles allowing users to import their own documents and notes

 

Moving on from that can you please, please look again at how Vectorworks is installed in computers:

 

points of concern (really disgust):

  • Move forward with the times - There are now multiple ways in which businesses manage and access files.  NAS storage and cloud storage are now mature and probably the norm in todays IT world. Not everyone wants to work either of their local computer only or off a fully fledged server.
  • Only core project files should be stored in the local computer folders
  • When installing Vectorworks, we should be able to where to store libraries where we want to: Why would you want to store libraries locally when your projects are all being stored on a server, NAS or in the cloud? Everyone in a practice should be accessing and using the same components documents libraries etc. having multiple local copies of libraries is just asking for trouble (and a waste of space).
  • Allow user profiles to be 'portable'

 

 

 

 

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post

Dear @Kevin C, I agree with what you say, specially the need to redo the Notes Manager, I spoke about that so much, and probably in such an annoying way for those involved, that I won't do it again here.

 

But I wish to add some comments about the Title Block. I love the Title Block. Now.

That was one of the ugliest tools in VW. Insufficient, cumbersome, millions of clicks. Then we had a major rewrite: it did initially put us through one year of desperation. Many refused to upgrade because of what it became.

 

But then.

Then, they fixed what we asked to be fixed. They did. I don't know if there was ever such an extensive response to users' complaints. They even built in the ISO standards, something that they usually shrug off as useless. For the Title Block they went through a high quality revision. Unique, in my decades long haunting of the VW soul sphere.

 

Now, going back to the needed communication with the ACAD/Revit world, what I can see, is that the tool does have indeed all in place to be able to manage data professionally AND we have the Excel communication, introduced by VW 2021. Sure we could have had Excel communication ages ago, no doubt. It would have done a lot of good to VW.

 

Let's cross the finger and wait to see if we get a new chapter in the Title Block together with Excel.

I don't have the time now, or I would love to try it.

 

Edited by _c_
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

A couple comments, I too have been having pretty good luck with the title block it takes a bit of learning. It is very customizable. So it can be set up just the way an office wants it.  One thing that does not seem to work for me is opening more than one file when editing it.  That so far does not work only the first one gets the changes.  

 

Excel, I like the Excel import but it seems still a work in process.  Changes made in the imported worksheet are not reflected back in the original spreadsheet.   And the VW worksheet does not have many of the Excel functions so any large changes mean going back the the spreadsheet then reimporting it to VW.  

 

I tried file sharing and gave up on it, as said above too many problems.  But also I am not a big fan of having files offsite floating in a cloud somewhere.  The need to have a better system allowing multiple people to work on a project does need a lot more attention.  I am guessing that most offices just split the project up into multiple files in order to share the work,  

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


 

7150 Riverwood Drive, Columbia, Maryland 21046, USA   |   Contact Us:   410-290-5114

 

© 2018 Vectorworks, Inc. All Rights Reserved. Vectorworks, Inc. is part of the Nemetschek Group.

×
×
  • Create New...