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Support for middle to large architectural projects still not on schedule


_c_

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On 12/4/2020 at 5:35 AM, _c_ said:

Where we have larger projects requiring multiple files VW fails. Features such as

  • Project Sharing
  • Stories
  • Drawing sync items (grids, labels, etc)
  • Data Tags
  • Resource sync
  • real workgroup management (spilt damned preferences from libraries)
  • etc...

cannot be used any longer or with monstrous workarounds.

 

And Edit Section in Place

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I don't think a practice even needs to be that large before breaking things into multiple files becomes a benefit (well were a benefit, more thing are cropping up). Certainly on the output side were viewports of various style are heavy computational objects. Even if we do use Project Sharing we have files that work group reference the core model file to product certain drawing files. I could see how even this wouldn't help larger projects again.

 

Maybe Project Sharing could find how to make "light" or "tuned" working files that only pull the required layers for the task at hand and can "release" parts (Layers) back out of the working file if making these things work between files is to hard.

 

 

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And the viewport obsolescence.

 

This is unavoidable when a project grows and/or you have multiple persons working on it. You end up with tons of empty or senseless viewports.

In environments where you have large turn over of trainees -usually on 6-months basis- it is impossible to keep house clean publishing in the same file where you work.

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And the archive policy.

 

You can archive a drawing made of references old style and a layout, because you can cap references keeping the layers. That's the real publishing.

But you cannot archive sensibly a whole project with layouts in the same file of the geometry because  you are never able to restore the exact things you published, should you need it.

By legal troubles you want that certainty.

 

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On 12/7/2020 at 7:58 AM, _c_ said:

And the viewport obsolescence.

 

This is unavoidable when a project grows and/or you have multiple persons working on it. You end up with tons of empty or senseless viewports.

In environments where you have large turn over of trainees -usually on 6-months basis- it is impossible to keep house clean publishing in the same file where you work.

Perhaps a partial solution would be to hire and keep experienced employees rather than using underpaid "trainees" who have to leave and find a real job.  

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11 hours ago, Helm said:

Perhaps a partial solution would be to hire and keep experienced employees rather than using underpaid "trainees" who have to leave and find a real job.  

I take it from that comment the supply of Vectorworks trained staff in your market is pretty good?

 

Certainly a round here VW being targeted at small practice and treating teamwork/3D/Bim/Use of styles/Use of classes/..... as not core skills the training base of potential staff can be hit and miss. Training always has to be a thing but at times it seems cross-training someone from another BIM package is better than trying to upskill an existing VW user.

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The length to which a bigger office has to go, can be quiet nicely seen in one of the webinars from this year. The office showed their file and referncing strategy . The complexity shown was something else. Very sophisticated. And one person only busy with the maintenance of all these references. That was not necessarly a presentation in Vectorworks favor. I do admire though their dedication. If I find the video and will link it.

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11 hours ago, Kevin K said:

Ohhhhhhh, Mr Helm, did I detect a wee bit of biting sarcasm there related to C’s comments 🙂

Now, now, I was told we all had to play nice here.

Yes I am guilty of going off topic, but I do have a thing, especially here in Italy (she is in Germany), where young architects are taken advantage of being hired on temporary contracts or as interns working for next to nothing with the excuse of training them.  I am sure C does not set the company policy and one could not ask for a better teacher than her.  

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On 12/8/2020 at 11:05 AM, Helm said:

Perhaps a partial solution would be to hire and keep experienced employees rather than using underpaid "trainees" who have to leave and find a real job.  

 

John, while these young ones are indeed not paid much, they are still paid. This is Germany, not Italy, where they even pay themselves, in some particularly bad cases.

 

I do remember that long gone myself struggling to find a job in a country whose language I didn't speak and I had the disadvantage to come from an environment where there was no practicing habit. Italy.

I wished indeed to be given that chance beforehand.

 

As a rule I think that no trainee, ever, came under my teaching without experiencing warmth and the highest degree an respect.

I do like them immensely. I had countless and baked countless sweets for them.

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4 minutes ago, _c_ said:

Hello Elepp,

 

we have a system which doesn't require particular skills and certainly no dedicated person. I consider it highly efficient and scalable, given the circumstances. We use it for every project, from small to large.

Now would it be possible for you to outline the system.

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1 hour ago, Helm said:

Now would it be possible for you to outline the system.

 

1 hour ago, _c_ said:

Hello Elepp,

 

we have a system which doesn't require particular skills and certainly no dedicated person. I consider it highly efficient and scalable, given the circumstances. We use it for every project, from small to large.

My interest is also peaked. 🙂 But I have no doubt about its efficiency. I have seen some of your work and I also had the good fortune talking to you once on the phone about it. A mutual friend here in Hamburg set it up 😉

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  • 2 months later...

Dear @Kevin C, I agree with what you say, specially the need to redo the Notes Manager, I spoke about that so much, and probably in such an annoying way for those involved, that I won't do it again here.

 

But I wish to add some comments about the Title Block. I love the Title Block. Now.

That was one of the ugliest tools in VW. Insufficient, cumbersome, millions of clicks. Then we had a major rewrite: it did initially put us through one year of desperation. Many refused to upgrade because of what it became.

 

But then.

Then, they fixed what we asked to be fixed. They did. I don't know if there was ever such an extensive response to users' complaints. They even built in the ISO standards, something that they usually shrug off as useless. For the Title Block they went through a high quality revision. Unique, in my decades long haunting of the VW soul sphere.

 

Now, going back to the needed communication with the ACAD/Revit world, what I can see, is that the tool does have indeed all in place to be able to manage data professionally AND we have the Excel communication, introduced by VW 2021. Sure we could have had Excel communication ages ago, no doubt. It would have done a lot of good to VW.

 

Let's cross the finger and wait to see if we get a new chapter in the Title Block together with Excel.

I don't have the time now, or I would love to try it.

 

Edited by _c_
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A couple comments, I too have been having pretty good luck with the title block it takes a bit of learning. It is very customizable. So it can be set up just the way an office wants it.  One thing that does not seem to work for me is opening more than one file when editing it.  That so far does not work only the first one gets the changes.  

 

Excel, I like the Excel import but it seems still a work in process.  Changes made in the imported worksheet are not reflected back in the original spreadsheet.   And the VW worksheet does not have many of the Excel functions so any large changes mean going back the the spreadsheet then reimporting it to VW.  

 

I tried file sharing and gave up on it, as said above too many problems.  But also I am not a big fan of having files offsite floating in a cloud somewhere.  The need to have a better system allowing multiple people to work on a project does need a lot more attention.  I am guessing that most offices just split the project up into multiple files in order to share the work,  

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