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2021 Public Roadmap

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Below is a link to an Enscape video  It is my first effort at a video so.  As I mentioned before the problem with Enscape is that its assets don't show up well in VW, but if you use mostly VW symbols and the VBvisual Plants available in VW they show up fine in Enscape.  Enscape does not like props.  The main advantage I am seeing is that you can do all your modeling in VW which you already know how to use and the model can be used as you like to create rendered elevations, etc using Open GL.  or also Renderworks.  Enscape does not have all the bells and whistles of Twinmotion as far as I know, but I like the way it integrates with VW

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7rgadfyhvduftfu/Enscape_2020-12-17-18-22-27.mp4?dl=0 

 

 

 

Edited by Helm
video attachment problem
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On 12/12/2020 at 10:15 AM, _c_ said:

John, the public release of Renderworks as built-in part - vs being a separate module - was one of the best decisions ever. A true added quality.

I truly hope that we won't be left without RW.

Totally agree with you on this.  Now if they would just make a cloud computed version of Renderworks that works like Enscape or Twinmotion that would be the ultimate.  And really set VW apart from the rest.  

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On 12/18/2020 at 2:50 AM, Helm said:

Below is a link to an Enscape video  It is my first effort at a video so.  As I mentioned before the problem with Enscape is that its assets don't show up well in VW, but if you use mostly VW symbols and the VBvisual Plants available in VW they show up fine in Enscape.  Enscape does not like props.  The main advantage I am seeing is that you can do all your modeling in VW which you already know how to use and the model can be used as you like to create rendered elevations, etc using Open GL.  or also Renderworks.  Enscape does not have all the bells and whistles of Twinmotion as far as I know, but I like the way it integrates with VW

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7rgadfyhvduftfu/Enscape_2020-12-17-18-22-27.mp4?dl=0 

 

 

 

The advantage of having a low poly asset within the VW file is that your file manipulation will not be slowed down by geometries that you only need to see on the final renders. This applies mostly to vegetation, cars , people and the like. Here I model with Wireframe or Open GL while Enscape renders using the GPU on a separate screen. It is good to see the changes rendered in real time while you keep modeling (see picture). There is a good review / tutorial on how to make custom assets for Enscape in the Joseph Kim YT channel. It is not super simple but helps a lot to improve the use of Enscape with VW.

 

 

IMG_20201208_1015374.jpg

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On 12/12/2020 at 6:08 PM, Helm said:

As I have been using Enscape quite a bit, I can see that the beauty of it is being able to set everything up in the VW model including all the add on stuff, people, plants, and cars.  Then the model can be used in the various modes to create rendered elevations etc.  and without leaving VW the model can be rendered in real time with Enscape.  Now I see it is not without a few limitations, but this should be the goal of any integration with other programs, Twinmotion or whatever.  It is time to realize that Renderworks is outdated.  VW needs to focus on making the basics work better and integrated the technology of others when it comes to rendering.  

I would be happy if one GL could be more like the typical Sketch default rendering mode, perfect for modeling. Since using Enscape I barely use Final render works anymore.

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On 12/24/2020 at 4:06 AM, jpoq said:

The advantage of having a low poly asset within the VW file is that your file manipulation will not be slowed down by geometries that you only need to see on the final renders. This applies mostly to vegetation, cars , people and the like. Here I model with Wireframe or Open GL while Enscape renders using the GPU on a separate screen. It is good to see the changes rendered in real time while you keep modeling (see picture). There is a good review / tutorial on how to make custom assets for Enscape in the Joseph Kim YT channel. It is not super simple but helps a lot to improve the use of Enscape with VW.

 

 

IMG_20201208_1015374.jpg

Pretty much what I see when working with Enscape except I usually view in OpenGL.  I like to keep as much as possible in VW, so use VW symbols and textures.  Right now the only other thing is VBvisual plants, mostly trees.  So there is not much in the way of extra load on the system.  Many VW symbols and textures don't render very well in Enscape, cars have no reflections, and some textures don't render at all so that is a problem.  VW props don't work at all so we have to use Enscape people if we want them in the rendering.  It is not yet a perfect combination.  

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TwinMotion, Lumion, Enscape, RedShift...will the Mac Users of VW ever get a live or live-link Renderer? The promise of the M1 (and future M chips) is very exciting, bit they no longer allow eGPU. New render tech coming will leapfrog the need for eGPU, but it seems never to arrive on the Mac.

Edited by Don Seidel
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2 hours ago, Don Seidel said:

M1 (and future M chips) is very exciting, bit they no longer allow eGPU.

 

Twinmotion, for me, works at least as good on M1 Mini

as it did on my Trash Can with "2x D700"

 

It may not be as fast or capable as my PC with 3950X and RX 6800

with 16 GB VRAM, but M1 does not heat my room nor make any noise.

 

I think with future, more capable Apple ARM Macs, you will no more

feel any need for a eGPU.

 

 

A bit longwinded Video,

but it shows the benefits of Apples architecture in Hardware and Software

together, from the view of a Blender Animator :

 

 

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Zoomer, nice as TM is on Mac, it's a "one-way" render. Meaning there's no live link to a VW Model, or even an update-on-import option. If you have to make changes to your VW model, you're starting over with a raw untextured,  non-lighted model in TM Mac when you re-import......unless I've missed something. Not an efficient workflow at all, given the competition.

 

It's 2021, after all. I Didn't get the flying cars everywhere promised when I was a kid in the 60's, but at least I should have a live plugin/live-link 3rd party renderer 🙂

Edited by Don Seidel

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13 minutes ago, Don Seidel said:

If you have to make changes to your VW model, you're starting over with a raw untextured,  non-lighted model in TM Mac when you re-import......unless I've missed something. Not an efficient workflow at all, given the competition.

 

Hi Don@Don Seidel 

 

You don't have to start over. Your model is saved with weather, lights and all. If you do changes in VW, then export with the same location and filename, you can reload your file in TM, and the alterations update. Its easy to save views in TM and export a bunch of them in literally no time. Then drag the png's back in to VW for illustrations.

 

I wanted a direct link and asked for it both in TM fora and here, but I don't see it as crucial anymore. In fact the Revit Link is so buggy that most users recommend the export / import method instead. You should give it at try.

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^ This.

 

 

1 hour ago, Don Seidel said:

Meaning there's no live link to a VW Model,

 

AFAIK,

the real Exchange to TM will come.

Not sure if TM will do that itself, but AFAIK they ask all Apps to

bring a true Datasmith Exporter to Unreal Engine, before any

Exchange Option will happen.

Same for Bricscad, they already have Datasmith Export integrated

but so far still no direct Exchange.

 

 

I also did some TM model Updating with newer C4D or FBX Exports

in the past and had some problems with Materials overridden/assigned

in Twinmotion. There were problems with Wood Materials I assigned to

Furniture that later appeared in my Curtain Wall Glass Panels randomly

after updating my geometry ...

 

So we all wait for direct Exchange.

 

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Hans-Olav,

are you responding specifically to my point? As recent as 1 yr ago, the VW Boards had users saying WHEN you have to re-import your VW model for changes, the building itself has to be re-textured. This was my experience. That's the deal-breaker for me. In 2021, I shouldn't have to re-do any textures in render world because of a model change.

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6 minutes ago, Don Seidel said:

sers saying WHEN you have to re-import your VW model for changes, the building itself has to be re-textured.

 

Hmmh,

as long as you just texture everything in VW,

there shouldn't be any problem at all.

It will load all your updated geometry in again with

all existing Materials Assignments.

 

Just when you start overwriting Material Assignments with TM Materials,

I experienced problems with Bricscad Models after updating them.

I have not yet tested if that problem really also exists with VW C4D exports.

Edited by zoomer

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My experience is that it is important to be organized when texturing the vw model. Some of the vw materials is good and don’t need any further tweaking. When I wanted to use some specific tm material it was enough to choose a distinct color for example pink and replace it inside tm. When later adding more pink objects they took the tm material on import. 

 

 

@Don Seidel 

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OK, so if I understand, you're saying a VW model with geometry changes (but no texture changes) is re-imported into TM, everything in TM is still good....no further editing of the VW model needed?

 

What file format out of VW has given you the best success with TM?

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Yes thats my experience, I usually export FBX sometimes OBJ but overall FBX was less trouble 

Still have to try Datasmith 

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I use C4D.

Not sure if FBX was in the hidden or optional import formats,

that you have to drop out first. Where e.g. you will also find Modo's LXO.

I think C4D is listed in the prominent default formats,

so I assumed it is better (?)

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OK seriously? I remember why I bailed on TM Mac when testing before. Version 2020.2 so buggy as to be "alpha" software. Slow navigation (hilariously so, even on different Macs), and yes I hit the eye button for faster mode. If you're using a trackpad (hello...it's 2021), there's no alternate navigation for many keys. Really should be "normal" right out of the box, not 100 workarounds for everything. Sorry but this is neither modern software or modern UI.

Edited by Don Seidel

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I am also not a friend of Epic Games Company, Game Loaders, Unreal/Twinmotions old school

fake rendering approaches (still) and would prefer Enscape (Subscription only ?) or Lumion,

but these are just Windows only.

 

So TM is my only Alternative on Mac.

And I like the capability of Object Animations and spreading Objects in the Scene.

 

I never had any crashes or problems with TM so far though.

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Best for me would be if Enscape finally would bring a ARM Mac Version.

There are so many Mac Edition voters on their Forum but we can't know

how they will decide.

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On 1/27/2021 at 8:29 PM, zoomer said:

Twinmotion, for me, works at least as good on M1 Mini

as it did on my Trash Can with "2x D700"

 

OK, I reached the limits of my M1 Mac Mini 16 GB with Twinmotion.

 

Usual Projects are absolutely ok,

just my most crowded ugliest Revit import project would not even load into

Twinmotion by C4D R21. I found a R20 or 19 version that loaded but it is so

laggy that it doesn't make make sense to work in Twinmotion.

And this was still usable in Twinmotion with the D700 Trash Can.

 

But Twinmotion is also still not Universal Binary but runs via Rosetta and so

far Twinmotion was the only App on M1 that did not work with that project.

In Modo, C4D, Bricscad and Vectorworks, that projects felt even a bit faster

on M1 than on my Trash Can.

 

(BTW, that project was even horrible slow in Bricscad, Vectorworks and Modo

at the time I worked on it on my Windows Ryzen PC)

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12 hours ago, zoomer said:

OK, I reached the limits of my M1 Mac Mini 16 GB with Twinmotion.

 

Update :

 

No and Yes.

I managed to load the C4D R21 file fine in a reasonable amount of time.

It was just the default TM setting to combine geometry by material assignment

which is a too cumbersome task for that mega geometry.

Maybe it would have loaded after 2 days.

I retried by my usual "keep existing hierarchy" and it loaded fine.

It was an early - non optimized import into C4D, as I finally worked in Modo.

3.6 GB TM file vs 1,8 for TM from Modo.

Nevertheless the R21 file was usable and navigable in TM, just not really

"real time" or fun to use.

 

So I  am confident that I can all do what my Trash can was capable of.

(so now replacing a 5500 € 7 year old "workstation" with a 1200 € lowest level device)

And I think it works great already with especially VW,

for all tasks, beside RW Rendering.

Edited by zoomer
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Rendering is a big part (if not the primary goal) of so many workflows. It's 2021 and we're long past due to have a built-in or add-on fast render tool that's at least on par with the general market. One that is 100% in sync with VW

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