Popular Post Kevin K Posted November 20, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted November 20, 2020 I seem to be pretty chatty as of late here on the forums. Sorry about that. :-) Not sure if many of you are tapping into the 'surface array' tool, but boy is it helpful and quick for some situations. Like, making the standing seams on a metal roof, or quickly creating batts for a board and batt exterior, literally in a few clicks. Rendered image below is kinda large but I wanted to make sure the details could clearly be seen. 10 Quote Link to comment
Kevin Allen Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 sweet work, and excellent use of surface array. Quote Link to comment
Kevin K Posted November 20, 2020 Author Share Posted November 20, 2020 Thanks Kev(yet another Kevin ) :-) Yeah, man, what a time saver as opposed to having to create all those batts, then even with doing a duplicate array you STILL would need to slice each one where the windows and doors occur. Wayyyyyy to much work. :-) The surface array automatically trims all the batts around the doors and windows.What a friggin time saver! 2 Quote Link to comment
Hans-Olav Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 Interesting! @Kevin K Would you mind explaining what you did? Is it walls and roof faces and extract faces tool? Quote Link to comment
Kevin K Posted November 20, 2020 Author Share Posted November 20, 2020 Hans-Olav Happy to explain. Exactly that. You use the extract tool and click on the various faces. In my case, the roof and the walls. 1 Quote Link to comment
Kevin K Posted November 20, 2020 Author Share Posted November 20, 2020 To expand a bit more, one aspect of using surface array, is that, say you wanted the batts, or the standing seams to be 12" apart instead of say 16 "......you just modify that distance in the object info palette, and boom! it changes all the items to reflect the new distance between the array items. It is pretty amazing how flexible the tool is. 1 Quote Link to comment
Kevin K Posted November 20, 2020 Author Share Posted November 20, 2020 Since I am on a roll.... "Oh, just one more thing" (as Steve Jobs would famously say at Keynote gatherings) pertaining to surface arrays. Ever had to make mission tile roofs? They are indigenous mainly to California, Mexico, and parts of Europe. Well, VW does have a texture that more or less mimics a barrel tile roof, but.....it is a totally flat texture, which when applied to roofs doesn't look all that realistic in my view. So....another great symbol to use when creating an array to use with Mission Barrel Tile Roofs. It is a 2019 file in the event anyone that doesn't have a later version of VW. Use at your own risk! :-) MISSION BARREL TILE V2019.vwx 3 Quote Link to comment
Kevin K Posted November 20, 2020 Author Share Posted November 20, 2020 Oops, I forgot to mention. Regarding the VW file I just uploaded, there is a bit of concrete in the symbol, that is used on the first course of tile...so you can't peer inside the front edge of the tile....obviously that is only used in that edge condition and not used as you stack and overlap the tiles that cover the rest of the roofs. 1 Quote Link to comment
Kevin Allen Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 9 minutes ago, Kevin K said: Well, VW does have a texture that more or less mimics a barrel tile roof, but.....it is a totally flat texture, which when applied to roofs doesn't look all that realistic in my view. Excellent Fix! Now if only surface array worked on native objects, and the extraction step could be removed... Quote Link to comment
Kevin K Posted November 20, 2020 Author Share Posted November 20, 2020 Kev IF I understand that comment....when creating a surface array you can elect NOT so show the base surface, so in the case of a roof, you just show the original roof object with what ever array item ( standing seams, mission tile, etc) sitting on top of the roof item. Quote Link to comment
Kevin Allen Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 right, my comment is to suggest that we should need to extract a surface from a wall or a roof. but we should be able to add the array to the original object. If you update the walls, the array has to be recreated. I'd like to eliminate that step. Quote Link to comment
Kevin K Posted November 20, 2020 Author Share Posted November 20, 2020 Ah, ok, i get it...... and yes that would be really great. Perhaps that would arrive in VW 2030? 😉 Quote Link to comment
Tom W. Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 Thanks for these posts @Kevin K . I like the timber clad steel roof model a lot. On 11/20/2020 at 5:29 PM, Kevin K said: literally in a few clicks. I've played with the tool quite a lot but I still don't feel entirely in control of it... The battens I can arrange across a wall fairly quickly but the roof tiles took me a lot longer - do you have any tips for what settings to enter + get it looking right 1st time? 'Offset X' Factor' I set to 1 so the tiles lay butted against each other side by side; 'Offset Y' Factor' I set to 0.8 so that they overlapped going up the roof; Repetition Mode Y' I set to Fixed Distance + set to the length of the tile symbol; Origin Y' Factor I ended up setting to 0.6 to get the tiles lined up correctly at the bottom edge of the roof but this was only through trial + error... Many thanks. Incidentally, another way I have used to achieve a 3D look for timber cladding is to clip the wall surface using a wall hole component symbol: Quote Link to comment
Kevin K Posted November 23, 2020 Author Share Posted November 23, 2020 Hey Tom Good work experimenting with surface array stuff! Yeah, those roof tiles can be a bit of a challenge to get right. A lot different than putting batts on a wall or standing seams on a metal roof face :-) Let me post a file in a bit that may help explain the Nath, etc regarding the tiles on a roof face. One dilemma I faced was whether to run a course of the tiles upside down, which is how they are applied in some cases, ( and a lot more work!) or to just run them normally where they sort of butt up to each other. 1 Quote Link to comment
Kevin K Posted November 23, 2020 Author Share Posted November 23, 2020 sorry, typo...I meant 'math, not 'nath'. Quote Link to comment
Tom W. Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 That would be amazing Kevin thanks v much! Quote Link to comment
Tom W. Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 It's clearly a really powerful/flexible command but almost has too many settings than necessary for this application. The ability to stretch or otherwise modify the array object to fit the base surface for example. And the way it repeats from a central origin. I definitely need to understand the nath/math (maths) better! In the batt example you can use any object with the correct extrude dim (e.g, 1") as the base object + then set the length/width in the tool settings. Rather than starting off with a batt correct in length + section. Which is quite wierd getting your head around. A completely different animal to Duplicate Array Quote Link to comment
Kevin K Posted November 23, 2020 Author Share Posted November 23, 2020 Tom Ok, I attached a 2020 file. Let me know if you need an earlier version. The file will open in an iso view with two screenshot images showing the setting for each tile layout. I didn't take the time to do the upside down tiles under the regular ones. The file is compressed so u will need to uncompress it. Do be mindful that the tile array items are based upon one tile 3d symbol. This keeps the file size somewhat smaller, but that said all those tiles do contribute to file size. The tile symbol is based upon a shell object, so you may want to convert it to something else which could reduce the the file size of the 3d symbol. I just have not taken any time to mess with that. Let me know if you have additional questions. I will say that the settings and math in the OIP involved with these roof tiles is way more complicated than just doing standing seams or batts.. Quote Link to comment
Kevin K Posted November 23, 2020 Author Share Posted November 23, 2020 Well, I thought I attached the file....maybe not.... Hopefully it is in this post. BARREL TILE EXAMPLE 2020.vwx.zip Quote Link to comment
Kevin K Posted November 23, 2020 Author Share Posted November 23, 2020 Tom Bedtime here in Tahiti, but I will check the forum mañana to see if you have any questions, etc. Hopefully what I sent helps you out. Quote Link to comment
Tom W. Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 Hi Kevin how’s the weather in Tahiti? Thanks for the file but it didn’t really make it much clearer to me the best strategy for approaching all the settings. I could get the tiles lined up as you had them but took a lot of fiddling around, but I guess that's just the nature of the tool? I've played around some more + think I’ve honed my technique a bit so feel more in command of what it's doing: If you use ‘fixed distance’ repetition mode + set the X distance to the width of the tile + the Y distance to the length, then you know an offset X factor of 1 is going to place the tiles side by side + you can work out the correct offset factor to get whatever overlap you want on the Y axis e.g. for a 50mm overlap (457-50)/457 = a factor of 0.89. Getting the bottom row of tiles to line up with the roof edge requires a bit more mathematics because you have to work out the distance they need to move by then again express this as a factor of the length of the tile + enter this in the ‘Origin Y Factor’ field to get the array to shift up/down. So lots of measuring + calculating then entering the results in the O.I.P. I don’t think there’s a simpler way than this? Thanks for the technique though it looks fantastic! I’ve been messing around with a wall hole component symbol trying to get it to clip the surface of the roof to the half round tile profile – as an alternative method – but I couldn’t get it to work. I did it here as a solid subtraction but it's a poor comparison to the tile symbol: But the profile does reflect the upside down tiles under the regular ones Quote Link to comment
Kevin K Posted November 25, 2020 Author Share Posted November 25, 2020 Tom First, the weather here is beyond amazing ! It is coming into our more rainy, humid season, but there are still many beautiful tropical days. A bit off topic, but if you click the link below, and click on the “Stingrays of Moorea” , then click on one of the short videos on that page, you will get a sense of what it is like to hang out in the lagoon with some of my Stingray pals !I am the guy with the mask and snorkel on his balding head! https://www.kskeys.com/copy-of-vargueno I hope all the math involved in sorting out the tile layout is not keeping you up at night! As you mentioned, there is some necessary fiddling and trial and error to get the results you want. Again, for the vertical batts and standing seams it is pretty straight forward, but that roof tile symbol does present a bit of a challenge. I have used the other, quicker option that you mentioned, as well, and although the tiles are not quite as realistic, it does look fine if you viewing the tiles from about 20 feet away. I just got crazy one day and wanted to raise the bar a bit, which is why I created the single barrel tile symbol. I guess the main reason I even started the topic was because there are a lot of cool possibilities when using the surface array tool. 1 Quote Link to comment
Tom W. Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 I'm jealous. Starting to get frosty here. 200 yr old house with wood stove + back boiler that's sprung a leak brrr... No I think I've got a handle on surface array now thank you! Almost too many knobs + levers. But v powerful/flexible tool + one I probably wouldn't have considered using in this way so glad to have been prompted to look into it more deeply 👍 Quote Link to comment
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