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matteoluigi

worksheet criteria "&" and "|" connections set by Vectorworks unsatisfying

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Hi,

 

I like working on worksheets in Vectorworks, however, Vectorworks tends to set "&" and "|" connections for Database-criteria rather randomly. (with a logic behind it, but, not always matching my aims)

 

As you can see in the screenshot, i want to filter all Rooms which are bathrooms from Building nr. 1

 

However, everytime I try to set these criteria, Vectorworks writes: "=DATENBANK(((R IN ['Wohnung']) & (('Wohnung'.'Zimmertyp'='Bad') | ('Wohnung'.'Haus-Nr'=1))))"

I always have to switch in "=DATENBANK(((R IN ['Wohnung']) & (('Wohnung'.'Zimmertyp'='Bad') & ('Wohnung'.'Haus-Nr'=1))))"

 

Can't you implement the option of setting the logical connection for "And" "Or" or "not" directly in criteria dialogue? That would be quite, recommended (not great)

(like in the second screenshot)

 

1267120258_Bildschirmfoto2020-10-21um10_38_51.thumb.png.109e4ded7ac80c61b6a73170f159ef47.png

Bildschirmfoto 2020-10-21 um 10.38.51_2.png

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While it would be nice to have more control over the & and | options through the dialog box, you do know that you can edit the criteria formula directly and change it to whatever you want?

 

At least in VW2021 (and I think 2020, not sure about before that), if you right click in the Database Header row column (eg. 3, not 3.1, etc.) you get an option to Edit Database Formula.  This will put the database criteria in the the formula bar and you can edit your & and | as you need.

image.thumb.png.bdab77fe859a2cca9e6a60a8e98d0969.png

 

The basic logic behind the Criteria dialog box is that any items of the same type (eg. Type is Rectangle, Type is Circle) will be OR'd (|) together. Any items of different types will be AND'd (&) together.

 

HTH.

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27 minutes ago, Pat Stanford said:

Edit Database Formula

@Pat Stanford I know about the Database Formula. I can edit it also in former Vectorworks-Versions, immediately after having left the dialogue.

 

 

31 minutes ago, Pat Stanford said:

it would be nice to have more control over the & and | options through the dialog box

in my opinion, worksheets are a rather good feature in Vectorworks. However, not being able to edit & and | is quite a limitation for getting deeper in good worksheets. I think their should already exist an Enhancement Request...

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39 minutes ago, Pat Stanford said:

At least in VW2021 (and I think 2020, not sure about before that),

In older versions, one could open the dialog and close it without modifications. At that time the databaseformula was editable in the formula bar. This still works in 2021 also. I've been using that for years.

 

6 minutes ago, matteoluigi said:

I think their should already exist an Enhancement Request...

That enhancement request exists indeed. Not sure about how high this is in the ranking though.

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Thank you both for the update about the database formula being left in the dialog box after editing the criteria. I have also used that for years. But I do find the new Edit Database Formula convenient. I try to keep moving forward instead of being stuck in my old ways.

 

Worksheets and Databases have improved substantially over the last few versions. If you look at all the new functions that have been added to be able to access Materials in worksheets, it gives me hope that they are considered important and will be further improved.

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The & and | options are supported in database criteria, but are not supported in the interface (the Criteria Dialog). You can edit your database criteria formula by hand in the formula bar as @Pat Stanford suggested.

I would be interested to know if there is an interface out there that does this type of AND/ OR queries and that you consider elegant, intuitive and easy to use. 

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12 hours ago, Hugues said:

I would be interested to know if there is an interface out there that does this type of AND/ OR queries and that you consider elegant, intuitive and easy to use. 

I could imagine like in the following screenshot. Maybe with a checkbox to enable or disable the functionality, so, users who don't care about "&" and "|" don't have to think about it. However, if you already start to use worksheets with criteria filters setting logical links is an elementary thing.

 

1196539065_Bildschirmfoto2020-10-21um10_38.51_2.thumb.png.10d07bd3847258c97ca5fc811f31dc72.png

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2 hours ago, matteoluigi said:

I could imagine like in the following screenshot. Maybe with a checkbox to enable or disable the functionality, so, users who don't care about "&" and "|" don't have to think about it. However, if you already start to use worksheets with criteria filters setting logical links is an elementary thing.

 

1196539065_Bildschirmfoto2020-10-21um10_38.51_2.thumb.png.10d07bd3847258c97ca5fc811f31dc72.png

 

Thanks. It would be interesting to know what you would expect as far as operators precedence.

A & B | C could have 2 different interpretations : (A & B) | C  OR  A & (B | C)

How do you picture an interface to support this?

 

 

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For me a live dialog box underneath it would be nice, so you see the whole formula at once and you could make your adjustments there as well. One of our biggest issues is, when you have lots of criteria and you would like to remove one from the middle. So far you always had to delete it from the bottom up. The other issue was if you edited the dialog in the formula bar and you went back to this dialog and just pressed ok, the formula was overwritten and a | was replaced with a &, or viceversa. Frustrating.

I think the way it's handled in the data manager could be a way to go. Especially because the interfaces would be similar and people would be used to the way it works in both situations.

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29 minutes ago, elepp said:

I think the way it's handled in the data manager could be a way to go.

could you eventually visualize your ideas with a screenshot and a photoshop-collage? I still am thinking about alternatives how to enhance the actual criteria-dialogue.

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Here is a very rough sketch:

 

1989186995_Bildschirmfoto2020-10-27um08_53_26.thumb.png.9e952d6b13adb3b3ac58cc59fab4b717.png

 

We would be able to edit the formula and change | and & according to our need.

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Just another idea:

priority levels from 1 to x, which set the importance of the chosen criteria.

level 2 criteria are set in one bracket, level 3 in 2 brackets... I think, this could be a way, to solve that issue in a rather simple and comprehensive way. More complicated criteria sets so still have to be written in "manual-code".

what do you think?

 

(2 options...)

@elepp @Hugues

 

tabelle-filter.thumb.jpg.bbe4056c1b3e63ee29497dc66ecc9a8b.jpg

tabelle-filter_2.jpg

Edited by matteoluigi

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