Side Light Schematic View

Recommended Posts

So I'm in 2021 and come to realize that Plot and Model view has been replaced with schematic view.  Is there a good tutorial that shows using schematic view to layout side lighting booms?!  Thanks!!

Thanks Mark!  Watching Now!!

So far so good.  Could you tell me about the Rotate tool - Lighting device mode.  Is this new in 2021?

Thanks Mark!

The rotate tool automatically reverts to this when a lighting device is selected in a 3D view. (Also, screen plane must not be the active plane). It's been around since 2019 (I think)

The tool will rotate the 3D portion of the lighting device about the X,Y,Z axes in a 3D view. It's fantastically useful for orientating lighting devices on non-horizontal lighting positions.

Hi Mark - thanks for this tremendously helpful video!

Could you explain how you offset the overhung par can?  I can't seem to do that in my own drawings.  I'm trying to draw a light ladder with lights overhung and underhung on the same rung.  I want to preserve the 3D geometry but can't figure out how to do that without the overhung lights completely covering the underhung lights in the schematic view.

Thanks!

Scott

• 4 weeks later...

Hey MarK,

a great Video! We think it's really great. Can we put it on our German Spotlight E-Learning Platform?
Our users will surely like it very much!

Thank you for your feedback !

Martin

6 hours ago, MWursthorn said:

Hey MarK,

a great Video! We think it's really great. Can we put it on our German Spotlight E-Learning Platform?
Our users will surely like it very much!

Thank you for your feedback !

Martin

Thanks

I think you will find that it is already on the Vectorworks University site though so probably no need to ask.

Mark

Hi Mark,

I'm returning to my question in a more specific way.  I was trying to offset within a position, which doesn't seem to work.  When I tried to offset outside a position, then the function worked.  I'm trying to draw both over and underhung units on the middle of a ladder.  I'm guessing the only way to do this is to make each rung of the ladder it's own separate hanging object so that I can use offset. Do you know of an easier solution or do I need to re-draft all of these ladders?

I'm attaching an image of what I am talking about.  Ladder 1R is what shows up in the default schematic.  Ladder 2R is what I want it to look like.  Ladder 3R was just me discovering that offset works only if used externally to the position.

Thanks!

Scott

You are right. I wouldn't redraft the position if I were you. What I have done in the past is duplicate the lighting Instrument Symbol and offset the 2D component. It takes just a few seconds and works well.

Edited by markdd

Thanks Mark!  I'll give that a try.

Scott

• 2 weeks later...

HI Mark Thank you for this great video!

I have struggled with the offset function the whole day. In my schematic view some lamps will move and take the footprint mark, some of them not.  I can't understand what's the reason for that. In the example below you can see that 2 lamps have the footprint mark but the third lamp won't get it. he lamps behave different each time .

I have an other question!

In the tutorial you're using the accessory removing tool, removing the clamp of a lamp symbol. I tried to make the same but doesn't work for me, regardless of whether I edit the 2d symbol with the accessory information you describe. My question is have do you attach before the clamps and then removing them with the tool? This is the only way tha works for me. I'm using the Niethammer profiles and the symbol have a clamp attach. I have to edit and delete the clamp in the 3d symbol menu in order to hang the lamp properly.

/Bernat

If you drag a lighting device out of the bounds of the rigging/hanging position, then you will see a Footprint. If you drag within the bounds of a rigging/hanging position then you will move the Lighting device.

For the accessory to be removable it needs to have the

• Light Info Record attached and the Device type needs to be either Accessory or Static Accessory.
• It also needs the Parts record attached with the Base field checked.

Clamps that are attached to most of the Vectorworks Library symbols don't yet have this set up yet. You will need to edit the symbol. Steps as follows:

• Edit the Lighting Instrument Symbol 3D component
• Select the exiting Clamp geometry and convert it to a symbol
• Specify the insertion point as where the clamp would wrap the barrel or hanging point.
• The Clamp will now be a symbol inside the Lighting Device Symbol
• In the Lighting Device Symbol make sure that the Yoke and Body are adjusted so that when no clamp is present they will hang at the origin of the symbol
• Adjust the Clamp so it is on top (The Insertion point of the clamp will be above the origin of the symbol. This is different to the way all the pre-2021 symbols have been created)

Make sure that the Parts record and the Light Info record are attached to the Clamp with the correct info filled in.

• Exit the Lighting Instrument Symbol

You should be able to use the Lighting Accessory tool to attach and detach the clamp.

Here is the file.Accessory.vwx

Edited by markdd

Hi Mark,

That was perfect!

Many thanks for the video and the file, that was self-explanatory.

Now I realise that when I offset the lamps from the hanging position, I have to update the geometry, otherwise the boundaries of the hanging position geometry follows the first offseted lamp and blocks other lamps to offset beside. Maybe is this a bug or is just like it is as it is.

I wish I could add an offseted lamp inside the hanging position it makes the plot interpretation easier to understand :).

Bernat

I think that Vectorworks have done a good job with this. I don't think this functionality is a bug and makes sense to me. I think that what the tool's designer was hoping to do was to stop the unintentional movement of objects within a rigging position whilst offering the ability to offset the 2D geometry outside to help with clarity.

The workflow that I described above is the best way that I know of showing offset 2D geometry within a Rigging Position.

I'm glad the Accessory workflow worked well for you.

• 2 weeks later...

I wonder if the fixture libraries will be updated to accommodate this workflow? Or is there a good reason to leave things as they are? Something in me dislikes the idea of each and everyone of us having to update the fixtures on an as needed basis. Is there an easy way to share the fixture libraries that we've updated?

• 1 month later...

Schematic view question:

I have created an Truss tower with an extra lighting pipe. These together are converted as one hanging position. On this pipe a have hung to Portmann P2 fixtures.

In top/view I have rotated my postman fixtures 180 degrees, so that they are facing to the audience.

When I create a schematic view an put this in the front view, the Portmans are rendered at an rotation of 0 degrees so the back of the fixture is rendered. But the rest of the truss towers is shown correct. Also the labels of the portman are correct.

Can somebody tell me what's going on?

39 minutes ago, EJ Berendsen said:

Schematic view question:

I have created an Truss tower with an extra lighting pipe. These together are converted as one hanging position. On this pipe a have hung to Portmann P2 fixtures.

In top/view I have rotated my postman fixtures 180 degrees, so that they are facing to the audience.

When I create a schematic view an put this in the front view, the Portmans are rendered at an rotation of 0 degrees so the back of the fixture is rendered. But the rest of the truss towers is shown correct. Also the labels of the portman are correct.

Can somebody tell me what's going on?

Can you provide some screen shots to help explain the issue?

Edited by markdd

Hello Mark,

Here an quick screenshot. As you see all the rotations i have made on the fixtures are ignored by the schematic view.

I can rotate the movinglight in the schematic view so that it stands on the truss but I can't do this with the portman fixtures.

Hope the screenshot are clear for you.

Thanks for looking at this.

That is expected behaviour. All objects on Schematic views always return to their unrotated orientation. You will need to redo the rotation of the schematic device. Just enter the rotation of the original lighting device into the schematic version and all should be well.

Try a rear view instead and you may get a better result as well.

I go into this a lot in the video so try and watch to the end if you can.

This is a current limitation of the schematic workflow which I hope will be enhanced further down the line.

schematic views are getting more robust and the ability to add a lighting device object to a schematic position and for the actual lighting device to show up on the actual position is a game changer for me.

Edited by markdd

Hello Mark,

For the moving light on the top of the truss I can rotate the fixture by 180 degrees. But I can't for the Portmann fixtures. If I rotate them by 180 degree in the top schematic view, they are also rotated 180 degrees in the front view. It looks like that the rotation of them are linked on all the views of the schematic view (top, Front, Back etc ect.)

I have looked at the rear view but then the rigged pipe that's on the truss is rendered behind the truss... Not a big deal but that's not the correct info for the people who have to build it.....

For now I have rotate the 2d/3d symbols of the lighting device (postman) by 180 degrees in top view. Now I don't have to change the  z as rotation, and the can stay at 0 for me. And that is the solution for my problem.

I hope that they will come with a solution for this and I really hope that we can place the fixture labels where we want them in the schematic view. As we can't move them now at all. Maybe we need an 2d/3d and schematic option for the labels in the label manager - edit field window.

On 11/5/2020 at 9:09 AM, markdd said:

You are right. I wouldn't redraft the position if I were you. What I have done in the past is duplicate the lighting Instrument Symbol and offset the 2D component. It takes just a few seconds and works well.

Agreed @markdd, common workflow, tho am sure we all wish it weren't so.

• 3 months later...

I have been desperately trying to make a boom as a hanging position as shown in the video. I cannot for the life of me see what was done to make it so that the hanging position can be stood up. I get told off for it being a hybrid object. I understand that that is normal behavior but I don't know how it was gotten around in the video. I followed these steps:

• Make a lighting pipe object
• Convert it to a symbol
• Convert it to a truss
• Convert it to a hanging position
• Try to rotate to vertical

I just wanna make a boom with a nice linked schematic view... I don't know why it is so very hard.

I'll be sobbing quietly in the corner due to frustration while I wait for a response.

Before you convert the truss object to a Hanging Position, select Draw 3D only in the Object Information Palette. That will generate a 3D only version of the truss and use that instead. You will then be able to stand your Hanging Position up.

This actually doesn't work - I just tried it. Something may have changed since I made the video which was made using a pre-release beta version of 2021.

Instead, when you have made the Lighting Pipe, in a 3D view, run the Convert to Group command (not Group) on the lighting Pipe. This will remove all the 2D from the pipe and leave you with all the 3D geometry. It will also create a dumb objects so none of the plug-in options of the lighting pipe will work. However, you will be left with a 3D object which you can rotate at will.

The answer to all of this is for you to develop a library of objects that make sense for the style of work that you do. I have made truss objects for all the boom lengths I encounter (and am ever likely to encounter) along with side arms etc etc. There are so many ways you can go about this and it all depends on what your final outcome needs to be.

You don't have to do this method at all and you could instead just stand a lighting pipe up by either inserting it vertically using the insertion tool mode or by changing the hanging angle. This will produce a perfectly serviceable schematic view. My method however, was intended to let the braceworks load function calculate all objects attached to the pipe.

Edited by markdd

Hi Mark,

I've been trying to remove c-clamps from some lights in the way you demonstrate in your video but it doesn't seem to work for me.  I'm not sure if I am doing something wrong or if it doesn't work the same in the latest VW2021 software.  I have the clamps set as "static accessories" and have "base" selected under the "Parts" Record Format.  They still seem to be treated as part of the light rather than an accessory, however, and I can't use the remove accessory tool to take them off. (nor edit them in the accessory edit space)  Is there another step that I am missing?

Thanks!

Scott

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×

• KBASE
• MARIONETTE

×
• Create New...