Hoist Display Options - Where did they go in v2021?

[Mark Aceto]

There used to be a ton (damn these puns) of control with hoist 2D display / label legends... Where did all of that move to in v2021? Are we supposed to use Data Tags now?

 

Edited November 1, 2020 by Mark Aceto

[klinzey]

Yes. All but the most basic information for the hoist should displayed using data tags.

There a few sample data tags available that you can use or modify.

[Mark Aceto]

Thanks @klinzey 

 

I tried editing the style, and setting the Y auto offset to -12" but it always just places the tag where I click. Is there documentation about this anywhere? Data tags are rad but this is a real curveball to just randomly discover on my own based on a soundbite in a promo video for lighting device label legends.

 

Questions

• How do I set X and Y position of data tag?
• How do I set hoist coordinates to feet & inches in the Hoist OIP?
• How do I get the numbers to round off?
• How do I make the X and the Y labels bold in the data tag?
  • I'm honestly thinking of just deleting them because the PIO provides the coordinates
• To assign a data tag to every hoist, do I have to individually click on each hoist?
  • And make sure that I don't accidentally click on the wrong hoist because the data tag will forever be linked to that hoist?
• Is there a way for me to select a data tag style from within the Hoist OIP?

Edited October 7, 2020 by Mark Aceto

[jcogdell]

HI Mark

10 hours ago, Mark Aceto said:

How do I set X and Y position of data tag?

this depends on the insertion mode chosen when using the data tag tool,single point mode auto places it on the object

using the 'select single object insertion mode' you can either use 'Single point insertion' which will place the tag directly on the object 

or 'two points insertion' which allows you to manually place the tag
if you use the 'select eligible objects' mode the tag will be placed using the offset defined in the tags auto-placement settings
 

10 hours ago, Mark Aceto said:

How do I set hoist coordinates to feet & inches in the Hoist OIP?

This is controlled by your document unit settings or by editing the tag style see below

 

10 hours ago, Mark Aceto said:

How do I get the numbers to round off?

You should be able to do this either by changing the precision of your documents unit settings (many of the tag fields are by default set to use your document settings, typically any tag field using Formatted in it definition name) or by editing tags field definition
edit the data tag style and in the display tab choose the edit tag layout button.

next select the appropriate text field and then click on the define Tag Field button in the OIP

once in the Define Tag Field dialogue you should be able to choose the parameter (from a drop down list) based on the chosen criteria and then define the units and precision in the dialogue,

note if the parameter has 'formatted' as part of its name you won't be able to change the unit settings, also for the changes to take affect you must make sure to delete the old tag field definition and add the new one

 

10 hours ago, Mark Aceto said:

How do I make the X and the Y labels bold in the data tag?

edit the data tag style and in the display tab choose the edit tag layout button.

next select the appropriate text field and the text options are in the OIP 

 

10 hours ago, Mark Aceto said:

To assign a data tag to every hoist, do I have to individually click on each hoist?

use the  'select eligible objects' mode of the data tag tool, all visible hoists will highlight and you can insert the tags with a single click

 

10 hours ago, Mark Aceto said:

And make sure that I don't accidentally click on the wrong hoist because the data tag will forever be linked to that hoist?

easiest way I have found to control this is to use class and/or layer visibility settings

 

11 hours ago, Mark Aceto said:

Is there a way for me to select a data tag style from within the Hoist OIP?

no not that I know of. Once a tag has been assigned you can change it by selecting it and using the style drop-down in the OIP but there is no way to do this from inside the Hoist itself
 

[Mark Aceto]

@jcogdell what am I doing wrong here with the offset?

 

EDIT: file attached

 

Hoist Offset v01.vwx

Edited October 7, 2020 by Mark Aceto

[Mark Aceto]

@jcogdell I need the hoist coordinate units to be different from the document units. Stock doc units are perfect as-is.

 

Hoist units need to be no decimals.

 

I solved that for the data tag but not the Hoist PIO.

 

Edited October 7, 2020 by Mark Aceto

[Mark Aceto]

2 hours ago, jcogdell said:

14 hours ago, Mark Aceto said:

How do I make the X and the Y labels bold in the data tag?

edit the data tag style and in the display tab choose the edit tag layout button.

next select the appropriate text field and the text options are in the OIP 

 

Because this is dynamic text, I'm not sure how I would logically be able to format individual characters in the formula unless there's some kind of markdown I can use, so I would probably just *break this up into 4 separate fields (2 dumb labels + 2 smart fields).

 

* EDIT: that will not work because the available parameters are formatted (aka "formated") incorrectly.

 

Edited October 7, 2020 by Mark Aceto

[Mark Aceto]

Starting to get the hang of this 😎

 

 

But I still need the Hoist PIO to round off those decimals to full inches:

 

 

 

Edited October 7, 2020 by Mark Aceto

[jcogdell]

15 hours ago, Mark Aceto said:

what am I doing wrong here with the offset?

Not sure, I found the offset difficult to set myself. I'll make some inquiries and let you know what I find out

 

14 hours ago, Mark Aceto said:

 I need the hoist coordinate units to be different from the document units. Stock doc units are perfect as-is.

This is only possible using the data tag. The Hoist OIP units will only display using the document settings, as far as I am aware this was the same for the old hoist object as well

 

14 hours ago, Mark Aceto said:

Because this is dynamic text, I'm not sure how I would logically be able to format individual characters in the formula unless there's some kind of markdown I can use, so I would probably just *break this up into 4 separate fields (2 dumb labels + 2 smart fields).

 

* EDIT: that will not work because the available parameters are formatted (aka "formated") incorrectly.

There are both formatted and unformatted  parameters available for the X Y Coords. One issue with the tag definitions is you can't just edit the tag field definition settings such as units and precision, without deleting the old definition and replacing it with the updated definition. I frequently have issues with this myself, its far too easy to forget a step or to hit the add definition button before exiting the dialogue

Regarding the display of the X Y Coords are you trying to achieve some like in the image below for the data tag? (I work in meters so that is what the hoist label and unedited tag fields are displaying)

 

 

 

 

 

[Mark Aceto]

8 hours ago, jcogdell said:

On 10/7/2020 at 9:33 AM, Mark Aceto said:

 I need the hoist coordinate units to be different from the document units. Stock doc units are perfect as-is.

This is only possible using the data tag. The Hoist OIP units will only display using the document settings, as far as I am aware this was the same for the old hoist object as well

 

There has been a "Round Dimensions" checkbox in the Hoist OIP for as long as I can remember, so it just needs to be restored. I would send a screenshot but I don't have any older versions installed on my machine. Here it's mentioned in the most recent Help app:

 

https://app-help.vectorworks.net/2020/eng/VW2020_Guide/Hoists/Placing_hoists.htm

 

Edited October 8, 2020 by Mark Aceto

[Mark Aceto]

17 hours ago, jcogdell said:

On 10/7/2020 at 9:38 AM, Mark Aceto said:

Because this is dynamic text, I'm not sure how I would logically be able to format individual characters in the formula unless there's some kind of markdown I can use, so I would probably just *break this up into 4 separate fields (2 dumb labels + 2 smart fields).

 

* EDIT: that will not work because the available parameters are formatted (aka "formated") incorrectly.

There are both formatted and unformatted  parameters available for the X Y Coords. One issue with the tag definitions is you can't just edit the tag field definition settings such as units and precision, without deleting the old definition and replacing it with the updated definition. I frequently have issues with this myself, its far too easy to forget a step or to hit the add definition button before exiting the dialogue

Regarding the display of the X Y Coords are you trying to achieve some like in the image below for the data tag? (I work in meters so that is what the hoist label and unedited tag fields are displaying)

 

That was the idea but I bailed on it because I couldn't find a tag field definition that worked like in your screenshot. I already have the X and Y coordinates displayed by the Hoist object arrows, so I don't need those values repeated in the data tag.

 

Feedback:

• The word "formatted" is misspelled in the dropdown menu as "formated" throughout (perhaps a language translation issue)
• Once again, I find myself requesting the feature to select multiple items (in the drop down menu) to speed up my workflow
  • The search functionality is massively helpful
    • Please add search to the Workspace Editor
  • Resizing the windows is also massively helpful
  • However, I'm not sure what a lot of the tag field definitions are, so the quickest way to find out is to create a dummy tag with all available options, and then replace them with the ones that I need

 

Edited October 9, 2020 by Mark Aceto

[Mark Aceto]

17 hours ago, jcogdell said:

On 10/7/2020 at 9:07 AM, Mark Aceto said:

what am I doing wrong here with the offset?

Not sure, I found the offset difficult to set myself. I'll make some inquiries and let you know what I find out

 

Thanks! I thought it might be page-based but that doesn't seem to be the issue (thankfully).

[jcogdell]

14 hours ago, Mark Aceto said:

There has been a "Round Dimensions" checkbox in the Hoist OIP for as long as I can remember, so it just needs to be restored. I would send a screenshot but I don't have any older versions installed on my machine. Here it's mentioned in the most recent Help app:

sorry my mistake, I completely missed this setting, I'll make an enhancement request to have it put into the new hoist object

 

[Mark Aceto]

12 hours ago, jcogdell said:

I'll make an enhancement request to have it put into the new hoist object

 

Thanks! Let me know about that offset issue when you find out what's up with that... 

[jcogdell]

Hi Mark,

I found out what is going on with the auto-placement settings for the data tag

The tag settings are layer scale dependent, so in your example file the offset was getting multiplied by 48 (1:48 scale)

[Mark Aceto]

9 hours ago, jcogdell said:

Hi Mark,

I found out what is going on with the auto-placement settings for the data tag

The tag settings are layer scale dependent, so in your example file the offset was getting multiplied by 48 (1:48 scale)

 

Well that would be insane to manage, so my feature request is that it's not dependent on layer scale. Also, I hope the intention is not for data tags to be only used on sheet layers (or that we should only be drawing in 1:1 scale on design layers). Really just trying to restore 2D display functionality that existed in the now legacy tool.

 

BTW I'm learning how to edit tags / layouts for the Space tool (which has its own set of challenges), and there might be a happy medium here for both tools... (in a Settings dialogue).

 

Lastly, I haven't taken the time to screenshot this but the checkbox for Show pickup symbol is supposed to show/hide the 2D display but it also hides 3D display. Or at least that's my understanding from a video I watched. Currently, it completely hides the pickup from both 2D and 3D. I would never want to hide the 3D (I just wouldn't pick a pickup symbol from the symbol picker). I would only want to hide the 2D display.

 

Edited October 12, 2020 by Mark Aceto

[JustinVH]

@Mark Aceto A trick that I found with the Pickup Symbol is to change the classing of the 2D geometry so that you can turn it off by class but leave the 3D visible with the OIP.  Both the 2D and 3D are on the Rigging-Truss-Accessories class by default.

[Mark Aceto]

@JustinVH That would def work if I want to show or hide them all but I was thinking there might be scenarios where I cherry pick which ones to show / hide based on the plot, so I guess I would be adding another 'hide' class... 

 

Actually, that brings up a good point (I'm just going stop pardoning all of these puns because there're too many): when hiding objects, is the recommended best practice to:

1. Dump them all on Nonplot
2. Duplicate classes and add "-Hide" suffix
   • So I won't lose or forget the original class name
   • So I can find it inline with what I'm working on contextually at the time
3. Duplicate classes and add "Hide-" prefix
   • So I can find all my hidden objects sorted in one place which I guess is what Nonplot is there for as a catchall
   • Saving a class filter would accomplish the same thing with #2 above

I've done it all 3 ways, and haven't really developed a preference. I love the simplicity of #1 but I'm concerned about unexpected nested class visibilities (and forgetting original class names). More often than not, I usually go with #2 because it's the most "non-destructive", and leaves a breadcrumb trail (with the class naming).

 

Edited October 12, 2020 by Mark Aceto

[MattG]

Hi @Mark Aceto  or @JustinVH I am messing around with many of the same things here at the moment.  

 

Did anyone ever come up with a way to see the data tag layout in design layer scale so I can actually make my data tag for a hoist and use real numbers like the scaled layer I'm in?  Right now that is a real joke to try to make some stock tags that line up.

[Nick Lazzaro]

On the Legacy Hoist Tool there was an option for positioning the hoist either "up" or "down".  This was valuable to me for not only visualizations but for 2D reference with tags turned off.   From what I can tell I do not see this option, but I could not be looking in the right place. 

 

Thanks!
 

[Nick Lazzaro]

On the Legacy Hoist Tool there was an option for positioning the hoist either "up" or "down".  This was valuable to me for not only visualizations but for 2D reference with tags turned off.   From what I can tell I do not see this option, but I could not be looking in the right place. 

 

Thanks!
 

I understand now how to select the hoist position now, it seems the "up" and "down" hoists are now separate symbols chosen when it is initially inserted.  Please disregard my previous question. 

 

Thanks! 

[Mark Aceto]

@MattG AFAIK data tags are only page-based, so my workflow is to select all similar objects, place the tag at center or insertion (which populates all of them at once), and then I shift them all down and over together. Inevitably, a handful of the tags will be piled on top of each other so then I’ll start nudging individual tags out of each other’s way.

 

Now that I’ve adapted to that workflow, it’s not too bad. I still don’t understand why they’re page-based but the win for me is being able to format all of my tags in the same style across departments, spaces, objects, plugins…  for more consistency / readability.

 

As for the X,Y coordinate arrows… I typically draw in 1/8th scale (1:96) so they’re always a mess. My workaround is to just add X and Y to the data tag. On that note, you’ll want to tweak your units to avoid 3 decimal places. That also needs to be refined in a future update because the “round coordinates” checkbox is sorely missed.

 

Edited January 11, 2021 by Mark Aceto

[Alexey Trebukhin]

Hi! Did anyone managed how to add point load information in Hoist data tag. Or now it's possible only in Braceworks? 

 

I faced with the issue  I cannot get how to solve. 

[jcogdell]

@Alexey Trebukhin from your screen shots you have selected the " (Legacy) Hoist #Hoistvw# " in the Object Name field, this is the record from the old hoist object.

you need "'Hoist #BrxHoist#" for the new hoist

 

In the parameter name field using

• Hoist Weight Equivalent(Formated) #RoofForceNoDeadloadWeight_formated#  This will display the weight or load acting on the hoist (in your document units), it doesn't include the hoists own weight
• Hook Weight Equivalent(Formated) #ReactionForceWeight_formated# will display the weight or load acting on the riggin point (which includes the hoists own weight)