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Wall heights


jcaia

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I'm trying to figure out why if I set a design layer wall height that isn't setting my wall height.  I've even set the wall data tab "Top Bound" to "Layer Wall Height" and it makes no difference.  I feel like in the past I could control the wall heights without setting up stories....but this isn't working as I remember.

 

Thanks for any help.

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Just now, jeff prince said:

@jcaia a wall style can be configured to have a height, which takes precedence over your design layer settings.

 

Thanks Jeff!  If you see my insert options part of this is confusing me since i've set (what i believe to be) the correct info for shaping the wall to my layer wall height.  However, its not changing the wall to match.

wall_settings.png

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Here’s a fun exercise for you....

 

Open a new document, create two design layers

Set the wall height of one to 2 m and the other to 20 m, name appropriately

Select the wall tool and change change the settings on the “insertion options” tab to top bound = layer wall height and bottom bound to layer elevation as you have shown in your example.  Leave this wall as ‘unstyled’.

 

Now make your 2m design layer active and draw a wall using the unstylish wall.

It will be set to 2m tall based on the wall tool preferences.

Move that wall to the 20m design layer and it will increase in height to 20m.

Now, select that wall and change it from unstylish to one of the VWX wall styles (not the story bound ones).

The wall will drop down to the height associated with that wall style breaking it’s relationship with the design layer wall height. Similarly, discretely entering wall heights in the OIP will break the relatiopnship with the design layer wall height because in each case, you are specifying more detail that takes precedence over the design layer wall height.  The relationship with the design layer wall height can be restored by selecting the offending wall and changing it’s Top Bound back to Layer Wall Height (it changes once you apply a style), but oddly it will keep the discrete height you gave it, do some Vectorworks magic math, and come up with entirely new wall heights that are not related to the wall style or design layer height.  Truly good stuff indeed.

 

Make sense?

Edited by jeff prince
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You might want to take a look at this:  

There is a basic decision that needs to be made when you set up your file - using stories or not.  I've decided that for my work (primarily custom single family homes) I'm much better off going with the "no stories" system.  While you lose some automation, for me it's much easier to set up.  It also handles split levels and double height spaces better.

 

Edited by E|FA
typo
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8 hours ago, jcaia said:

If you see my insert options part of this is confusing me

 

You can control the top and bottom heights of a Wall (Style)

for the overall Wall as you did in your screenshot.

 

But you can also set/overwrite top+bottom for each Wall Component.

I think this is the case in your Style.

That way the overall Wall height settings will be ignored.

 

Wall Styles and Story+Level in VW are a bit complicated at first

(IMHO more than it needs to be)

But once understood and set pretty helpful.

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On 9/23/2020 at 5:43 PM, jeff prince said:

Here’s a fun exercise for you....

 

Open a new document, create two design layers

Set the wall height of one to 2 m and the other to 20 m, name appropriately

Select the wall tool and change change the settings on the “insertion options” tab to top bound = layer wall height and bottom bound to layer elevation as you have shown in your example.  Leave this wall as ‘unstyled’.

 

Now make your 2m design layer active and draw a wall using the unstylish wall.

It will be set to 2m tall based on the wall tool preferences.

Move that wall to the 20m design layer and it will increase in height to 20m.

Now, select that wall and change it from unstylish to one of the VWX wall styles (not the story bound ones).

The wall will drop down to the height associated with that wall style breaking it’s relationship with the design layer wall height. Similarly, discretely entering wall heights in the OIP will break the relatiopnship with the design layer wall height because in each case, you are specifying more detail that takes precedence over the design layer wall height.  The relationship with the design layer wall height can be restored by selecting the offending wall and changing it’s Top Bound back to Layer Wall Height (it changes once you apply a style), but oddly it will keep the discrete height you gave it, do some Vectorworks magic math, and come up with entirely new wall heights that are not related to the wall style or design layer height.  Truly good stuff indeed.

 

Make sense?

 

Sorry for the belated response.

 

So I did what you asked and it was interesting.  The results don't match what I figured would happen.  I made 2 design layers - (1) 10' and the other (2) 20' (im in ft not m)

 

When I setup the layer structure as you said, drawing an unstyled wall on the 10' layer gives me 20' in reality, and moving it to the 20' layer gave me a 30' wall.  Is that what you expected?  I've placed some screen shots to show (did i miss something?)

10ft_wall_odd.png

10ft_wall_setup.png

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  • Vectorworks, Inc Employee

@jcaia, you may want to head over to the Architect section and read the two articles posted near the top - "Model Set-Up" and "No Stories, No Problem".  They fairly carefully cover the difference between a Level Bound wall style and a Layer Bound wall style.  There are a couple of study models you can experiment with as well.

 

Cheers!

 

Wes

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Hi @jcaia to illustrate what Jeff says if you look at the settings for the particular wall style you're using you'll see that its overall height

785309163_Screenshot2020-10-04at08_06_57.thumb.png.8a4f8f1dcec88d1edad918f552198de8.png

and the heights of its components

1598157564_Screenshot2020-10-04at07_53_25.thumb.png.6f180d55372035d69cb24480c6e7ced6.png

are set to be bound relative to story.

To make this particular wall behave the way you want in the first instance you need to change top bound to 'Layer Wall Height' + bottom bound to 'Layer Elevation'. And in the second instance select all four components + click on Edit... + change 'Relative to Story' to 'Relative to Wall'.

1940718871_Screenshot2020-10-04at08_00_07.thumb.png.5218dd9bbb1e06ded0a9389ef995028d.png

Then it will respond to what is shown in the O.I.P. You just happen to have chosen a story-bound wall which is why it's behaving this way. In a way you might be better starting with a blank canvas + creating a wall from scratch, then you can ensure it's set up exactly how you want it rather than editing an existing one which can be confusing. I'd treat the VW walls/slabs/roofs more as samples/examples of what you can do rather than resources you'd actually seek to build a full model from.

It all goes back to what @E|FA  said earlier about making a decision at the beginning as to how you want to set up your document. The simplest way is to have no wall height at all set on your design layers + to set the top + bottom wall bounding to 'Layer Elevation' + then just control the height by the Top Offset value. This will be a value added to the layer elevation so in effect becomes the height of the wall.

The other end of the scale is to use stories which has many advantages but is more complex to set up. It depends on what you're doing + what you need. For example, if you have a single story building + you know what the wall height will be from the outset + it's never going to change, then probably v little advantage to using stories.

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Unless you are using Stories, and are using the default Wall Styles that ship with VW, make sure you select Walls from the Imperial Fixed Height Walls or Metric Fixed Height Walls rather than the Story Bounded versions and you will be much happier.

 

You can make either work, but it is just easier if you don't fight stories if you don't need them.

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On 10/4/2020 at 12:49 AM, Tom W. said:

 

The simplest way is to have no wall height at all set on your design layers + to set the top + bottom wall bounding to 'Layer Elevation' + then just control the height by the Top Offset value. This will be a value added to the layer elevation so in effect becomes the height of the wall.

The other end of the scale is to use stories which has many advantages but is more complex to set up. It depends on what you're doing + what you need. For example, if you have a single story building + you know what the wall height will be from the outset + it's never going to change, then probably v little advantage to using stories.

 

Thank you again everyone for the help.  This section of advice was very helpful.

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