V11 vs. V12

[ErichR]

I've been having trouble with v12 file corruption, with user friendliness, and with Renderworks. VW just stops rendering a bitmap, as though it is out of memory. It will produce a black rectangle. I've tried to reduce the DPI to no avail.

Taking the same file, exported to 11.5.1, Renderworks works! The problems occur with virtually all v12 files i've used.

This, along with problems with file corruption, and difficulties with using what should be ordinary tools, I feel forced to go back to 11.5. Bummer that the warranty has expired. Add to that the need to export a lot of files, but I've reached the point where I can't justify the time required.

I'm wondering if NNA program developers might have recognized these difficulties and can offer some assurance that revisions (beyond 12.0.1) are imminent.

[ErichR]

Andrew,

4 GB RAM should be sufficient for VW, but I have had out of memory error messages with v12.

Also, if 11.5.1 works where 12.0.1 doesn't, what's your conclusion?

The files in question, both for becoming corrupted, and for failing the Renderworks test, are admittedly large and complex, and they are 11.5 legacies. 120MB-135MB. Is there a limit to file size? Is there a problem with legacy files?

I've tried to simplify as much as possible, so as to allow VW to do it's thing, including setting preferences to the minimums for the app and for the file, including setting undos to 0.

With regard to rendering a simple shape, I didn't say that v12 failed always, but that it failed where 11.5 did not.

I'm waiting for an email from Katie about an FTP site for sending one of the corrupt files for examination (not one of the rendering problem files).

Thanks for your interest.

[ 03-07-2006, 07:21 PM: Message edited by: ErichR ]

[Andrew Bell@NV]

Have you checked either the Task Manager or the Activity Monitor to see if you are getting close to running out of memory?

What happens if you just create a simple extrude and try to render that?

We can't fix what we don't know about. Have you reported the problem to tech support, with details about your particular system?

As for file corruption, could you provide any details? Are you getting size 0 files, or files that seem large enough but that VectorWorks won't read?

[Andrew Bell@NV]

quote:

---

Originally posted by ErichR:

Also, if 11.5.1 works where 12.0.1 doesn't, what's your conclusion?

---

None at this point. I was trying to figure if 12 could possibly be pushing you over the edge memory-wise, but with 4 GB I'd say no. If you manage to create a simple file that consistently does not render, I'd send it to tech support.

You might want to try a memory test program like MemTest to see if there could be faulty memory.

Does OpenGL work without problems, or do you encounter the same issues with that?

[ErichR]

No...simple files do render.

Complex files appear to be more likely to render with v11.5 than with v12.0.1.

Therefore, v12 is more memory-hungry (with Renderworks) than v11.5 is.

This being the case, since our projects are complex, if they won't render with v12, then we'll have to go back to 11.5.

[ErichR]

1. Rendered bitmaps

2. Curved polylines (2d contours)

3. Curved 3D polylines (site)

4. 3D symbols, esp. realistic looking trees with leaves

5. 3-5 story townhouse or condo complexes with nested, stacked symbols (maybe 100 units or more)

6. 10 or so sheet layers with viewports (rarely rendered)

7. One or more complete surveys (originally ACAD).

[Travis]

Do you keep all this in a single file, or do you break it up into multiple files and use Workgroup Referencing to bring the drawing set together?

We find the later to be more efficient, both from a memory as well work-flow perspective.

[ErichR]

Travis,

Regardless, maybe the file is too fat for v12.

But (this is the point), it's too fat for v12, not for v11.

Does v12 require complex file breakdown that wasn't required before?

[Christiaan]

quote:

---

Originally posted by ErichR:

The files in question ... are admittedly large and complex ...120MB-135MB.

---

Out of curiosity, what aspects of the file contribute the most to this sort of file size? What do you have in your file Erich? I'm interested because we generally don't have files any bigger than 30MB and even then we have some complaining that these are too big.

[Travis]

We're still transitioning to v12. . .some projects are not yet complete that were started in v11.5. We've had no problems with file sizes under either version. (Yet?) But then, a very large file for us would be 50?60mb. . .just half of what you're dealing with.

Don't avoid the WGR option because it seems more complex. We find it somewhat simpler in the long run to have a project broken into logical components. The new bi-directional linking available in v12 is a godsend.

Good luck,

[ErichR]

Continuing the topic of 12 vs. 11 issue, in v12, in a wireframe perspective, if you zoom in 'too far' the screen goes blank. For example, the new human figures have cool parametrics, but a man I inserted with an 'average' build had definitely been to Gold's Gym one too many times. I wanted to chanage such parameters hoping to do an open GL rendering to see something of the final result. Zoom in and: Blank screen. Raise the drawing in V11.5 and it goes blank too, but you can zoom a little further, it seems.

Is this a bug?

[ 03-09-2006, 11:36 AM: Message edited by: ErichR ]

[Guest]

Erich,

What OS are you using?

[Guest]

Erich -

Can you check to see what driver version of the video card you have installed?

You are also welcome to send this file along with a description of the problem to tech@nemetschek.net for further evaluation.

[ErichR]

ATI x600 256 hypermemory driver 8.162.0.0

ATI x600 256 hypermemory driver 8.162.0.0 secondary

[Guest]

Are you using hydravision in conjunction with the video driver?

What is the date of the video driver?

[ErichR]

Never heard of hydravision.

Where is the driver date shown?

[ErichR]

v12.0.1

WXP

P D 840 Dual Core 3.20 GHz

4GB DDR SDRAM

ATI Radeon X600 SE

BTW, just did an experiment: Compare RW on V12 and V11.5

No other apps running.

VW set to 0 undos.

V11.5 Custom RW 72 DPI/Detail Med/Shadow Mapped Shadows/Render BitmapTextures/Transp/Anti-A. Elapsed time: 13 Min.

Same view in v12, similar Custom RW settings, Result: Black bitmap (no rendering). Elapsed time 10 min.

Since v12 isn't rendering, I must go back to v11. Can I get a refund? But even better, is there a way to make v12 work?