Selecting an object that is behind another object.

[MaxStudio]

I'm sure a lot of people have this problem. you have two objects named object A and object B. Object A is directly behind object B. Normally when you try to select either, object B is selected since it is infront of object A.

My question, is there a way to easily select object A which is behind object B without sending object B to the back?

Thanks

Max

[G_Hannigan]

This works like using the "vertex only" editing option. When the selection is first made, the OIP shows # of objects selected. Click on the 3 dots and the name of one of the overlapping objects is shown. You can then toggle between the objects using the arrows to the right. However, if you try to move the object by dragging, both will move. If you enter new values in the OIP, only one object will move.

George

[ 03-03-2006, 01:29 PM: Message edited by: George Hannigan ]

[MaxStudio]

hey thanks guys just thought their might have been a way much like holding "hold shift" while selecting. I guess thats not the case.

Thanks again

[ErichR]

The really easy way is to select whatever object wants to be selected and hit Command-B (Move to Back). The next time you select the object, it will be the object that was behind, but is now in front.

[D Wood]

Similar solution to Peter C:

If there are only 2 objects, you can CUT the front one, do whatever you want to do to the back one, and PASTE IN PLACE and the front one will reappear. The only caveat is that you must not COPY anything else in before you PASTE IN PLACE, otherwise you will lose the cut object.

You could also remove the fill in the front object to make objects behind visible.

Regards

David W

[jan15]

Good idea, David.

I myself would normally use the Send commands to handle this, since I have function keys that issue them, but Max made it clear that he has some reason why he doesn't want to do that. So maybe Paste-in-Place will work for him.

Or maybe layers -- one of the main purposes in having layers is to control what's in front of what, and to select either the thing in front or the thing in back whenever you want just by using the Ctrl-Arrow keys to cycle through the layers.

[mike m oz]

Select both objects using a marquee

- In the OIP you will see 2 "objects' listed at the top.

- Click on the button with 3 dots to change it to single dot mode.

- Use the arrows to toggle between the two objects.

- When you have the required one selected edit it as you want.

Note this will work on any selection of multiple objects - the one currently shown on the OIP will 'flash' as you scroll through the list of selected objects.

[CipesDesign]

Two ways: 1) temporarily MOVE the object that's in front. This obviously requires remembering to move the object back, and remembering how far.... 2) If an object has a discreet name you can select it using the CUSTOM SELECTION command. [NOTE: You can name any object by typing its name into the FIRST FIELD of the DATA TAB in the OIP.] Hope that helps.

[jan15]

Make a window or crossing that selects both objects and as little else as possible, and then you can cycle through the selected objects in the Object Information palette.

[MullinRJ]

Got room for one more suggestion? There is another really quick way IF there are only two objects.

Select both objects, then Shift-Click the top object which deselects it.

What's left is the underlying, hard to select, object you desire. Your hands never leave the keyboard and mouse, nor do you have to mouse over to the OIP and back - unless that's where you were headed in the first place...

[DDDesign]

There is still a major issue here. It doesn't matter which object is selected, if you go to drag it, the top object is the one that will move. After many years it still manages to catch me out! On the other hand, if you drag a handle it's the selected object that will resize . Can anyone explain why this behaviour is so inconsistent - and counter-intuitive?

I still maintain the solution is for VW to make cmd(alt)+click cycle through all objects - as it does in other apps - and have the selected object move when dragged.

[jan15]

Good point, david. It's something you run into a lot. I've been ignoring it for years, working around it in various ways, but it could be fixed.

It happens because the Select tool is selecting the object on top. It has an alternate mode, a stretching mode, which only stretches and doesn't select. It switches into that mode when you put the cursor in a certain position relative to a handle, shown by changing to a two-way arrow instead of a pointer.

But drag-moving and drag-copying is done in the standard selection mode. That's a good thing normally -- it makes dragging fast. But in the case of two colinear objects it's a problem. The tool has no choice but to ignore the selection set when you click on an object that's not part of the set. It thinks you want to change to this new thing as the start of a new selection set.

As you say, it could be solved with a modifier key. Just as we hold down the Ctrl key to force a drag-copy instead of a drag-move, we could hold down a different modifier, say Alt, to force the tool into a non-selection, drag-only mode.

I'm going to put this in the Wish List.

[ 03-07-2006, 11:28 PM: Message edited by: jan15 ]

[MullinRJ]

You already have that key. It's the U key for the Selection Tool. Just switch mode to "disable resizing" and click on any handle and pull (with cross-hair cursor). The underlying object will drag from its buried position to its new position. Press U again if resizing is desired. It may not be as sexy as using one of the modifier keys, but it works.

[jan15]

Is that something new? In v10 it only disables re-sizing. It doesn't disable selection.

[jan15]

In v8.5.2, the 2D Select tool only has one mode (plus the automatic re-sizing mode and the momentary Ctrl-key mode for drag-copying instead of drag-moving).

In v10.5.1, it has two primary modes, which are labelled as with and without "Interactive Scaling" (which I've been calling drag-stretching). Upon less casual inspection I see that if you disable the interactive scaling, then yes, you can indeed grab a pre-selected underlying object and begin drag-moving it (instead of selecting and dragging the overlying object). But only if you grab it at the endpoints or corner points -- not at the midpoints, even when the cursor changes to a crosshair, and definitely not anywhere else. That sounds like what you're describing, except for the question of all handles vs. endpoints only. Maybe the difference is that Mullin doesn't have the midpoint handles turned on and I do. Or maybe it was upgraded in v11.

But that's not a very good solution. What's really needed is to disable selection entirely, so you can click anywhere to start the move -- not just on an overlying object, but also on empty space or on a remote object. All without de-selecting anything. As I pointed out in the Wish List posting that I made about this, that would also permit moving and copying by remote click points. How about that, huh?

And if it can do all that, it'll have tremendous value, and really should be controlled by a momentary switch like the one for copying. In fact, it would have to be done by a momentary switch, because you can't have a mode of the Select tool that doesn't select. That would be like changing to a Move tool. We wouldn't want that, would we?

[ 03-04-2006, 08:00 PM: Message edited by: jan15 ]

[ccroft]

You could have a look at VectorMove plugin. It is a move tool that works pretty much as you describe. Very useful along with it's mate VectorDuplicate (or something like that).

[jan15]

That VectorMove tool looks nice. It doesn't seem to do selection at all, but it does a nice move-by-remote, and some other things also, including some Sketchup-like things. I'm going to try it out.

But moving with the Select tool has always been one of the nicest features of Vectorworks. Like standing in a room full of empty cardboard boxes and just grabbing them and throwing them up on the shelves. The selection and the move done with the same click. It would still be best to correct this little flaw in the 2D Select tool so that it can do that all the time.

Moving with the Select tool is something I always miss when I work in Sketchup. In SU you have to select, change tools, move, change tools, select, change tools, move, change tools, etc. It seems so primitive.

[ 03-04-2006, 08:01 PM: Message edited by: jan15 ]

[ErichR]

Again, select to top object and move it to the background. Now, the object you want is on top and can/will be selected.

Why make it difficult?

[MullinRJ]

quote:

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Why make it difficult?

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Changing the stacking order is undesirable in some situations. In most all of my designs the stacking order is very important so I don't change it without good reason. When it's not important, I agree, shuffle away.

quote:

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But only if you grab it at the endpoints or corner points -- not at the midpoints, even when the cursor changes to a crosshair, and definitely not anywhere else. That sounds like what you're describing, except for the question of all handles vs. endpoints only. Maybe the difference is that Mullin doesn't have the midpoint handles turned on and I do.

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I have all 8 handles enabled and I can drag an underlying object using any one of the 8 handles when Interactive Scaling is disabled. I checked v12 back to v8.5.2, and it seems to have worked this way on all versions since then. Maybe there is a difference on the PC, but I should expect that would have created quite a stir before now.

FWIW, I like it the way it works right now. I wouldn't mind added features, as long as none of the current modes are changed in any way.

Raymond

[jan15]

Erich,

We're not talking about making it difficult (except for the people at NNA who write the code). We're talking about making it easier. Instead of changing the stack order, which is a separate operation requiring several clicks, you'd be able to just hold down the Alt key and then the stack order won't matter. You'll be able to drag the selected stuff no matter where it's stacked, and even if you don't click on the selected stuff at all.

Raymond,

Absolutely, I wouldn't want to lose the way the 2D Select tool works now. It's fantastic. Until I read what DDD wrote here, it never occurred to me that there could be any way to improve it.

And there must in fact be a difference between Mac and PC in this regard. PC v8.5.2 has only one mode for the 2D Select tool. Do you mean that Interactive Scaling can be disabled in some other way, with a Preference or something? In any case, PC v10 is as I said; you can only grab an underlying object by the corner handles in the one mode, and not at all in the other.

[ 03-06-2006, 10:04 AM: Message edited by: jan15 ]

[ccroft]

It's nothing new. It's just the standard keyboard shortcut to cycle modes for tools that have more than one. You could mouse up to the left button in the mode bar as well

If you want to click drag the underlying object and the selection tool is in resize mode, you may notice that to get the cross-hair cursot to appear you're slightly outside the bounding box. If you click now the selection switches to topmost object if it's filled.

If you use the tool with resize disabled you can get the cross-hairs when directly on the handle of the back object. If you click now you can drag that object.

So if you want to resize the bottom object use the tool in resize mode. If you want to drag that object use it with resize disabled.

At least this is how it works here with my snap radius setting in 11.5. Pretty sure it was like this in 8. Don't know 9 or 10.

[DDDesign]

quote:

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Originally posted by ErichR:

Again, select to top object and move it to the background. Now, the object you want is on top and can/will be selected.

Why make it difficult?

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Erich, this is only true if there are only two objects in the stack. Restacking is tedious for multiple objects

I've added tp Jan15's post in the wish list thread, and spelt out exactly what I had in mind for the selection tool modifier.

[MullinRJ]

Jan,

Sorry to hear that the PC version is/was different from the Mac version. I must live a spoiled life.

Since Mac v8.5.2, there have been 2 mode buttons at the top of the screen for the Select tool; Interactive Scaling and Wall Insertion modes (no special preferences, though). In all Mac versions since, dragging an underlying object is possible from all 8 selection handles when Interactive Scaling is turned off. I wish I could look at a PC version and see for myself.

Raymond

[jan15]

Next to the words "2D Selection Tool", where the buttons for tool options always are?

[G_Hannigan]

Jan,

Which version of VW are you using? In 12, there are five selection modes displayed (Rectangle, Lasso, etc.) to the left of the 2D Selection Tool text shown in your screen shot. The first one on the left is the toggle for Interactive Scaling Mode.

George

VW 12.0.1, Win XP Pro