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I have just been introduced to keynotes. I love these - loads of potential!!

 

However - in addition to the description (which is essentially a title?) and note text (which appears on the key on the drawing,) please can we add additional data? Like a record type setup?

 

For example, I want to be able to set up a drawing with keynote callout numbers, and an associated key with a note / summary of each item, which I can do at the moment using the notes database. I then want to be able to set up a worksheet showing these numbers and note text, but also another data column (or series of columns if needed) showing further detailed data linked to each of the items in my key - for further specification reference.

 

I don't think this is possible right now aside from setting up additional non-linked records... but it seems like a straightforward(ish?!) addition to the current keynote function, and would be AMAZING for us in terms of functionality.

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You can create a database worksheet showing both callout records and custom records attached to the callouts. Or is this what you mean by "non-linked records"?

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10 minutes ago, Boh said:

You can create a database worksheet showing both callout records and custom records attached to the callouts. Or is this what you mean by "non-linked records"?

 

 

This is exactly what we do. We have created a Custom Record Format that we attach to all of our callouts, then, in addition to the Keynote Number and Keynote Text fields that are part of the Callout Plug-In, we can also report in worksheets all of the custom information we also need.

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, ericjhberg said:

 

This is exactly what we do. We have created a Custom Record Format that we attach to all of our callouts, then, in addition to the Keynote Number and Keynote Text fields that are part of the Callout Plug-In, we can also report in worksheets all of the custom information we also need.

 

Thanks @Boh and @ericjhberg

 

Does this have to be done for each individual drawing though, and the custom data inputted each time?

Or can this be linked to the callouts database, which could be used again and again by multiple users?

 

What I actually want is for custom fields within the notes database to store additional information associated with each individual note, which doesn't have to be displayed in the key.

 

For example:

 

I might have a saved note for a 'root barrier membrane'. I set my call-out to label as 1, and key note would be "1 - Root barrier membrane". This is saved within a communal callouts database.

 

I don't want the key on my drawing to show the supplier, dimensions, or any additional specification information on the root barrier membrane, as I don't want my drawing to be cluttered with this information - but I do want to store / link these within the note saved in the database, so that for each drawing, as well as using the database to generate a simple key, I can also export a worksheet of all the supplementary information not necessarily shown in the key? Without having to re-input the additional data each time? 

 

I understand I can attach a record to each call-out, but if I understand correctly, I'd likely need to re-do this for every call-out and every drawing. So that's kind of what I meant by setting up additional non-linked records? It loses the database / library functionality.

Edited by lisagravy

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@lisagravy

I don't think what you want is currently possible with the callout tool. It would be great to be able to do that however.

 

If you want a library of notes with additional info attached then you could set up notes as symbols and have default records attached. The symbol notes could be reported in a worksheet with or withoout the additional data to suit your drawing. I think some people do notes this way already.

 

You might also want to explore the data tag tool which might be edging towards what you want to do also.

 

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Thanks @Boh - I know there are probably good workarounds, like potentially symbols - and I will have a look at data tag! 

 

I just thought this keynote callout feature with the database seems so so good, adding in the functionality of an extra, non visible associated data block is really high up on my current wishlist!! 

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Create a symbol, with a callout inside it, using the 'Convert to Plug-in Object' option.  It works a bit like a template for the callout.  Put the Symbol in your 'Favorites'.

 

Make sure the callout is not associated to any database though, otherwise it will start looking for the wrong database, unless your notes databases are always in the same place on every project.

 

The callout can then have the 'record' attached to it, inside the symbol, and is ready to use anytime.

 

You still have to associate it to the database, so either way, you have to do some work.

 

Alternatively, once all your callouts are placed, run a script to 'select' them all using custom modification.  You can then 'attach record' via the properties dialog that appears.

 

Think that should work.

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12 minutes ago, Boh said:

You might also want to explore the data tag tool which might be edging towards what you want to do also.

 

Can a data tag read data from a callout database, and produce a set of keynotes?  Would love to see that.

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19 hours ago, lisagravy said:

Thanks @Boh - I know there are probably good workarounds, like potentially symbols - and I will have a look at data tag! 

 

I just thought this keynote callout feature with the database seems so so good, adding in the functionality of an extra, non visible associated data block is really high up on my current wishlist!! 

 

Unfortunately, as @Boh mentioned, storing additional data with a callout in the Database is not currently possible. We end up doing a lot of copying and pasting. Fortunately, if you design your callouts correctly and attach the extra record, manipulating the extra data from a Worksheet is actually pretty quick and effective. Sure it would be great to have that data already populated, but it isn't a dramatic extension to add it from the worksheet, using it to populate the drawing after placing callouts.

 

18 hours ago, shorter said:

Create a symbol, with a callout inside it, using the 'Convert to Plug-in Object' option.  It works a bit like a template for the callout.  Put the Symbol in your 'Favorites'.

 

Make sure the callout is not associated to any database though, otherwise it will start looking for the wrong database, unless your notes databases are always in the same place on every project.

 

The callout can then have the 'record' attached to it, inside the symbol, and is ready to use anytime.

 

You still have to associate it to the database, so either way, you have to do some work.

 

Alternatively, once all your callouts are placed, run a script to 'select' them all using custom modification.  You can then 'attach record' via the properties dialog that appears.

 

Think that should work.

This is enticing. I haven't tried a Callout Plug-in Symbol before, but I like the possibility here.

 

We are in the process of switching over to Data Tags. No we cannot store info in a database, but for symbols, we can store favorites with a saved custom record data attached that can be saved in Favorites and easily added to projects and tagged. This process, using data tags to callout objects with particular records attached, has another huge benefit. When querying in a worksheet, you can actually pull information about the objects themselves (i.e. qty, area, volume, etc.) and not the callouts pointing to them.

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All plugins can be saved as symbols or styles now to preserve settings for office wide standardisation. Saves hours of work.

 

however, the callout is extremely useful when annotation detail drawings when the objects drawn are not BIM ‘objects’ and therefore are not tagged by NBS chorus, for example.

 

We link our callouts directly to an excel file which originates from the specification writer. They update the database and it updates our callouts and keynotes.  No plugin or script necessary. No marionette. You can’t do that in Revit.

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3 hours ago, shorter said:

All plugins can be saved as symbols or styles now to preserve settings for office wide standardisation. Saves hours of work.

 

however, the callout is extremely useful when annotation detail drawings when the objects drawn are not BIM ‘objects’ and therefore are not tagged by NBS chorus, for example.

 

We link our callouts directly to an excel file which originates from the specification writer. They update the database and it updates our callouts and keynotes.  No plugin or script necessary. No marionette. You can’t do that in Revit.


I think this is kind of what I’m trying to do? I’m looking to work our detail drawing annotations into a spreadsheet specification which gives additional detail on each item. I thought the callout option would be good as, like you say, the details themselves are 2D lines & hatches, (so are not BIM objects / Chorus tagged with data,) but with the callout / keynotes library you can easily select pre-determined data in the form of a description / note for each item from the database.
 

My wishlist item is just noting that it would be great if we could incorporate additional data which would save alongside the item description, as a separate (but linked) record. So that when you annotate something as amenity grass, there is another field for additional data, into which we can save specification notes such as preferred seed mix, soil depth, etc. 
 

Then, if we export a worksheet of all the keynote information, we’d have a detailed specification for all the items in the drawing, directly linked to and generated from the detail annotations, but with more information.
 

It’s less useful if I need to add in the additional specification each time, there’s no real benefit to doing that in Vectorworks if so - I could do that in excel / somewhere else. The real benefit would be labelling a detail ‘amenity grass’, and Vectorworks pulling pre-saved amenity grass specification information into a worksheet, to save me re-typing it! 
 

So I’d ideally thought if we could utilise the keynote database for the additional data, we could store specification info for each item here in a library, so that we don’t need to rewrite or re-input the specification for standard items each time, or maintain a current library of specifications. 

 

I’ll do some experimenting with creating callouts as a symbol. Still would like to keep additional data in the Callouts database as a wishlist item for future though! This would be a really excellent feature. 

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The difficulty is going to be entering additional data via the callout database interface in Vectorworks.

 

You could have a database in excel, that contains the additional data and simply set that up to be read by Vectorworks as the callout database so the flow of data is one way.

 

We usually advise clients to edit data at it's source, and not in every file.  This way you always know where to go to find something and know it is the source of truth.  This is particularly useful when comparing files and trying to figure out which one is current.

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@shorter - this could work - we could manage a database library of callouts and associated information separately to be read by Vwks, and I can see the benefit intros.

 

Ideally I'd then want to select my callouts in Vwks from information from that library - and then be able to export a worksheet showing the full data including associated information from the original excel library, but only for those callout items used in the drawing.

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