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JuanP

2021 - Teaser Tuesday: Performance Enhancements

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Hi,

this looks promising. Enhancements are always very welcome!

Biplap mentioned in the last Design Summit 2020 that, for us Macusers

Vectorworks 2021 supports Apple Metal.

 

See this:

https://www.vectorworks.net/design-summit/virtual-keynote?utm_campaign=blog&utm_medium=planetvectorworks&utm_source=button&utm_content=042320summitkeynote&hsCtaTracking=fef62d7d-b19b-4108-bc45-de2b801c36c7%7C2fa30288-08a8-44a9-aced-94cdd10b05e1

 

Does the Performance Enhancements only enhances the CPU, or does it also affect the GPU (with Apple Metal)?

… or ist the Apple Metal Enhancement a separate thing?

 

Greetings from Germany

Toby

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1 hour ago, SteveJ said:

Speaking of Big Sur...

It is very nice to report that we have been working with Apple and their Big Sur beta since its introduction in late June - ALL known issues have been resolved. We will be providing more updates about Big Sur compatibility in the near future.

 

 

That is nice to hear.

As I already switched to Big Sur 😉

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Hi SteveJ,

 

many thnx for your answer.

 

So we will see no Apple Metal support in VW 2021, not even a part of it

and the full conversion then only takes place with VW 2022.

 

Greetings

Toby

 

16 hours ago, SteveJ said:

Hello Toby.

Apple Metal is a separate thing. These 2021 enhancements target the CPU.

 

We are committed to providing a smooth transition to Apple’s Metal. In 2021 our focus is to maintain quality and stability as Apple transitions to its new Big Sur Mac OS 11.  That said, please know that we are hard at work transitioning our VGM to use Metal and we plan to replace all OpenGL with Metal for the 2022 release.

 

Speaking of Big Sur...

It is very nice to report that we have been working with Apple and their Big Sur beta since its introduction in late June - ALL known issues have been resolved. We will be providing more updates about Big Sur compatibility in the near future.

 

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Posted (edited)
On 8/19/2020 at 9:19 AM, SteveJ said:

These 2021 enhancements target the CPU.

 

@SteveJ my question about GPU/VGM got buried, so I'm asking again here. From the 2-year old Teaser Q&A video, it sounded like multi-threaded CPU operations were able to transfer more graphics to the GPU, so while that multithreaded improvement was specific to the CPU, the GPU took advantage of that.

  1. Is it safe to say that a GPU will take and process more graphics from the CPU in VW21?
    1. That's a strange sentence to word correctly but I'm picturing the milkshake from There Will Be Blood, and Daniel Day Lewis is the VGM, and he has 10 straws sucking graphics from that CPU milkshake
  2. How much of GPU performance will benefit from VRAM vs other graphics card specs?
  3. How does VGM caching factor into this (hardware choices when speccing a machine)

For context, the 16GB Vega 64 on my 2017 iMac Pro was never maxed out (through VW19), so would I now be able to take full advantage of that GPU in VW21? That's a pretty modest graphics card compared to what's available today, especially on a Windows machine, so I'm excited about the possibilities here ... 

 

For reference, just like the side-by-side comparison of our favorite city model, the VGM LOD Teaser from last year was super helpful because Activity Monitor was open, showing how much of the GPU was being utilized. And, of course, we really want to see how many CPU threads are being used in VW21 vs VW20.

 

 

1653195035_ScreenShot2020-08-20at2_40_10PM.thumb.png.3e48990eed754e309f80f5ec3d97b4c9.png

Edited by Mark Aceto
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For the core count, it sounds like the supporting library @JuanP mentioned last year got taken care of in this release.

 

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On 8/18/2020 at 11:04 AM, Samuel Derenboim said:

😞

This is exactly why I never ever use hidden Line rendering.

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On 8/21/2020 at 7:51 PM, mjm said:

This is exactly why I never ever use hidden Line rendering.

Could you share your alternative please?

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45 minutes ago, Tom Klaber said:

Are these improvements expected for both PC and MAC?

Simple answer yes, both platforms have the core limit lifted and see performance improvements.  Longer answer and staying devoid of any personal platform affinity; Windows does fare better due to better performance in its low level threading functions.

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On 8/19/2020 at 10:43 AM, zoomer said:

 

 

That is nice to hear.

As I already switched to Big Sur 😉

@zoomer any feedback on Big Sur? I have an external disk with Big Sur to play around with, looking for compatibility issues and VW2020 seemed stable..

That's just playing around with some existing files, and not extensively.. what are your experiences..

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1 hour ago, dtheory said:

That's just playing around with some existing files, and not extensively..

 

I did the same so far. No intensive work here.

 

I had one unexpected crash with VW 2020.

But all smaller lags or issues I thought noticing in Big Sur

seem to happen on Windows in a similar fashion.

 

So far there is nothing where I could say that does definitely

not work in VW on Big Sur. For me it looks good so far.

(OK, the "leave Edit Mode" button seems to miss its Text)

 

 

Beside I use Big Sur all day long and don't want to go back.

Although it is definitely Beta and has its issues.

 

But it was a very good idea for me to test Big Sur in time

to check my software repertoire in compatibility.

I was aware that I will finally lose my hand full of 32bit only

Apps like Aperture.

But was quite surprised that also all older Apps that still use

KEXTs will no more work. And these are quite a few here.

From Parallels, VirtualBox over CleanApp uninstaller to driver

software and such like 3DConnexion.

Also Bricscad does not work either for whatever reasons.

 

 

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For macOS Big Sur... 

 

There's an excellent tech bulletin to follow here:

 

And discussion here:

 

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hi Kevin,

 

yes, i hope Apple Metal gives the mac community a big boost.

 

I'm looking forward to Apple Silicon too, specially als Macbook Pro User.

I hate my loud and noisy fans on my MBP 16" 2019.

It seems that the age of x86 will have come to an end (in a few years).

 

VW brings my machine to often to its thermal limits.

ARM based SoC are better for this, i think.

 

More power, is always welcome (CUP and GPU wise)

 

Greetings

Tobi

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8 hours ago, Tobias Kern said:

VW brings my machine to often to its thermal limits.

 

This is a stab in the dark but I was using those Incase hardshell cases for years until I realized it was blocking the exhaust vents on my 2019 MacBook Pro, trapping the heat inside. I almost never heard the fans after I removed it. So, if by chance you happen to be using one of those hardshell cases, removing it will help with MBP thermals.

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On 8/18/2020 at 11:02 AM, Josh Loy said:

@Samuel Derenboim no improvements with hidden line this release but I wouldn't be surprised if it was next on the list.

 

@Josh Loy Hidden Line rendering has used every core and thread I throw at it as long as I can remember (which is about two years).

 

Am I missing something here as it relates to CPU/GPU performance in VW21?

 

Here's a screenshot from today:

 

Screen Shot 2020-09-17 at 5.52.57 PM (2).png

Edited by Mark Aceto

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hi Marc,

 

thnx for the tips.

 

i never used such cases.

i dunno what brings the mbp in vw to the limit sometimes.

 

i noticed that there is often a very high load on „windows server“

(activity monitor).

 but maybe it has to do with some included copy protection.

i hope vw 2021 runs better and 2022 brings apple metal.

 

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@Josh Loy been test driving a fresh drawing started in VW21... 

 

Unchecking Save VGM graphics cache reduced this file size from 134mb to 19mb.

 

I could send you the file if you like. In the meantime, I'm going to continue test driving with that box unchecked... 

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@Tobias Kern The computer in your signature is a beast (my current dream machine). A lot of folks thought they were overheating but they're actually designed to run hot with the fans on high (very un-Apple and a big reason why they're moving to ARM). Would love to see some screenshots of Activity Monitor and Intel Power Gadget when VW is pushing your machine hard. My guess is that you never max out that GPU (or RAM).

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