Data Tags - Proper workflow

[rDesign]

Is the recommended workflow to place Data Tags on a Design Layer or in SLVP Annotations? It works both ways, but I get a very long 'spinning beach ball' lag when I place it in an SLVP Annotation that I do not get when I place it on a DL. Once I get it successfully placed in a SLVP Annotation, selecting the Data Tag again to move it triggers another long spinning beach ball. 

 

I have also found out that Data Tags (at least the Door Dims one found in THIS thread) when placed on a DL do not scale properly with differently scaled SLVPs. So a Data Tag designed with a 10pt font placed on a 1:48 DL becomes 20pt when viewed in a 1:24 SLVP; in other words, it is 2x too large. Is this the expected behavior?

 

Additionally -- using the Door Dims Data Tag from that other thread as my example -- I would like my door dimensions to show up as 36x80 (not as 3'0"6'8"), so I change the Units in the 'Define Tag Field' to Inches, Click OK, but when I reopen the Define Tag Field dialogue box, it has reverted back to Document Default Units.

 

Thanks.

Edited August 12, 2020 by rDesign

[Guest Wes Gardner]

Here ya go, there are three versions, the original, one that displays as 36 80 and one that displays as 36x80.

Yes, Data Tags are set up to work best on Sheet Layers so that the WILL scale properly.  I'm not experiencing the lag you mention.

Door Dims on Leaf.vwx

[JuanP]

20 hours ago, rDesign said:

Is the recommended workflow to place Data Tags on a Design Layer or in SLVP Annotations? It works both ways, but I get a very long 'spinning beach ball' lag when I place it in an SLVP Annotation that I do not get when I place it on a DL. Once I get it successfully placed in a SLVP Annotation, selecting the Data Tag again to move it triggers another long spinning beach ball. 

@rDesignCould you send me the file showing the lag for further testing please? You can send me a Direct Message or email to jalmansa@vectorworks.net thanks

[rDesign]

6 hours ago, Wes Gardner said:

Here ya go, there are three versions, the original, one that displays as 36 80 and one that displays as 36x80.

 

Great - Thank you @Wes Gardner. That works like a charm!

 

Now I realize what my mistakes were -- in that I didn't fully understand how the 'Define Tag Field' dialogue box worked:

1. I thought you had to manually type in the Data Source tag parameter names in the Current Tag Field Definition box;
2. I didn't realize that the 'Add to Definition' button was for both of the upper field selections. The section right above the 'Add to Definition' button was greyed out, so I missed the button completely.

Maybe I was just being dense, but to me the UI in this dialogue could use some improvement. 

 

 

6 hours ago, Wes Gardner said:

Yes, Data Tags are set up to work best on Sheet Layers so that the WILL scale properly.

 

Thanks for the clarification on this. Perhaps I missed it, but the Help File page on Using Data Tags doesn't make the distinction that if you want your Data Tags to scale properly they MUST be placed on a Sheet Layer. It only says the following:

Quote

 

The data tag is placed in the appropriate plane, depending on where the tool is used.

●        Viewport in an annotation context: annotation plane

●        Design layer in Top/Plan view: layer plane

●        Design layer in a 3D view: active plane

 

 

Edited August 13, 2020 by rDesign

[Andy Broomell]

8 minutes ago, rDesign said:

the UI in this dialogue could use some improvement

 

I concur wholeheartedly.

[rDesign]

5 hours ago, JuanP said:

@rDesignCould you send me the file showing the lag for further testing please? You can send me a Direct Message or email to jalmansa@vectorworks.net thanks

 

@JuanP - I sent you a DM with a sample file showing the 'Data Tag Lag' in SLVP Annotations. Thank you.

Edited August 13, 2020 by rDesign

[Mark Aceto]

First I’m hearing of Data Tags set up to work best on Sheet Layers but that certainly explains their page-based placement. 

 

Why are they not set up to work on Design Layers like myriad other tags and annotations from the space tool to gird lines / dimensions to label legends... 

[Guest Wes Gardner]

@Mark Aceto, the trend is to get annotations, be they data tags, dimensioning, notes, etc. into the Annotation Space of a viewport on a sheet layer.  Grid Lines, although they are created in design layers, work nicely and will show up in both elevation and section when displayed in a viewport on a sheet layer.  I would stop using the Space Tool's tag and start using a Data Tag for room names, etc in a viewport on a sheet layer.  The main reason is scalability.

 

Wes

[Mark Aceto]

Hey @Wes Gardner , totally understand the thinking behind that, and it’s certainly great to have the option but the rule of thumb for me has been: only annotate on the SLVP when absolutely necessary.

 

Without listing a bunch of small specific use cases, there are 2 main reasons:

• I want to edit one time (on the DL) and have those edits populate in all SLVP’s where I can control them with classes
  • The last thing I want to do is dimension 10 SLVPs, revise the DL with client feedback, and then re-dimension 10 SLVPs (especially if a VP corrupts)
    • I realize that dims and DT’s associate to objects but often times I’m adding a new object or… 
• Entering the annotation mode is slow, and working on SL’s in general is slow

That said, I’ll definitely give this new method a shot with various plots and plans to see if this improves my workflow but the idea of switching back and forth between DL and SLVP annotation modes while working with Braceworks doesn’t sound very efficient. Maybe I’ll just edit / enter the Braceworks DL through the SLVP?

 

Thanks for the tips on the Space Tool. However, there are still cases where I need to use the ST because of the DT's limitations with displaying units, markers, and ability to calculate functions (sometimes literally displaying the function operators vs actually calculating).

 

 

Edited January 19, 2021 by Mark Aceto

[Guest Wes Gardner]

@Mark Aceto...I hear your Mark!  Fortunately we can support both workflows! 

[cberg]

One of the things that has me very leery of using Data tags is that they seem to randomly disassociate.  Has this issue ever been fixed?

 

 

[hollister design Studio]

On 8/13/2020 at 12:22 PM, rDesign said:

1. I didn't realize that the 'Add to Definition' button was for both of the upper field selections.

 

Me neither, UI has a lot of room for improvement and/or better documentation.

 

[Michal Zarzecki]

That's an interesting topic.

 

I have been wondering about the correct workflow as well.

 

I have moved my annotation exercise from DL to SLVPs, however, I keep struggling with at least those two aspects:

• Data tags react differently in DL and in SLVPs - when I annotate plants in SLVPs, the data tag picks up the entire bounding box, rather than the outline of individual plants or landscape areas. This makes annotation really difficult.
• I cannot figure out how to annotate coordinates - when using stake tool, different coordinates are produced in a SLVP.

 

Have you guys got any experience and advice on those aspects? I would love to hear what others are doing - perhaps I am missing something important. 

[Coast and Beam Architect]

I am currently trying to streamline my permit documentation setup. I tried to use the "data tag" option in the Viewport and it doesn't allow me to. I have to do it in the design layer. For example, when I try to place a wall tag, it only works if you are in design layer and the wall actually highlights so the tag can identify it. Then I am stuck with the tags that autogenerate (EW-1 for example, instead of W-1). Presumably there is a setting in the wall that I can change? Haven't gotten that far. Can't do it in viewport annotations because the wall doesn't highlight and it gives me an error message.

 

The next problem is that I would like to grey the plan and click through each of the data tags (wall, window, door etc) so that I can cut out all the noise and just focus on that one tag, especially for revisions. But I can't do that in the design layer because the data tag and the wall are connected, so I can't grey out the plan and keep the data tag opaque.

 

So frustrating it makes me just want to go back to putting everything on layers.

 

[Mark Aceto]

47 minutes ago, ArchiPam said:

I have to do it in the design layer.

 

100% my preference for all data tags whenever possible.

 

47 minutes ago, ArchiPam said:

Can't do it in viewport annotations because the wall doesn't highlight and it gives me an error message.

 

That should not be the case. Are you using a data tag made for walls? Share a screenshot of the data tag layout field definitions?

 

47 minutes ago, ArchiPam said:

The next problem is that I would like to grey the plan and click through each of the data tags (wall, window, door etc) so that I can cut out all the noise and just focus on that one tag, especially for revisions. But I can't do that in the design layer because the data tag and the wall are connected, so I can't grey out the plan and keep the data tag opaque.

 

Not sure I follow... You're trying to tag objects on the active DL, right? And the other DL's are greyed-out (with objects you're not trying to tag)? Or you're trying to tag the same type of objects on DL's that are both active and greyed-out? Maybe another screenshot would help here... This seems solvable.

 

Edited April 22, 2021 by Mark Aceto

[Tom W.]

5 hours ago, ArchiPam said:

I tried to use the "data tag" option in the Viewport and it doesn't allow me to. I have to do it in the design layer. For example, when I try to place a wall tag, it only works if you are in design layer and the wall actually highlights so the tag can identify it.

A data tag for a Wall will work fine in a Top/Plan viewport but not so good in a Section Viewport. You have to adjust the Extents Beyond Cut Plane (increase it) in order to get the tag to pick up the wall. The other issue in Section VPs is that you can't change the orientation of the tag in the normal way. You have to rotate in manually in the O.I.P. or create dedicated tags with different orientations + use the correct one depending on the wall in question.

 

I don't know if this is relevant to what you're experiencing or whether this has changed in VW2021 I haven't tried it yet.

[taoist]

On 8/13/2020 at 9:43 AM, Wes Gardner said:

Here ya go, there are three versions, the original, one that displays as 36 80 and one that displays as 36x80.

Yes, Data Tags are set up to work best on Sheet Layers so that the WILL scale properly.  I'm not experiencing the lag you mention.

Door Dims on Leaf.vwx 188.72 kB · 10 downloads

  Do you have this for VW 2019 Archotect?

 

I know, I am behind here.

[rDesign]

On 9/11/2021 at 8:27 AM, taoist said:

  Do you have this for VW 2019 Archotect?

 

I know, I am behind here.

Attached is a v2019 version of the file @Wes Gardner previously posted. HTH.

 

Door Dims on Leaf v2019.vwx

[taoist]

rDesign

 

Thank you!