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Kazemester

Graphical bug vw2020

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Hi,

does anyone have any idea what is this? Its been around since VW2016-17... It does this to the models when area is too big, or it is georeferenced far from the origin.

Does anyone have any solution for this? Thanks.

 

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VW loses a lot of precision when any objects are more than 7(??) km from the origin. This is due to the range of values that have to be used. The only work around is to move the objects closer to the origin. If you need them to be in the correct position in space take a look at Georeferencing so the objects can be close to the drawing origin, but dimensioned from a distant location.

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Hi, any CAD program has a 'safe-zone' where you can work. If you're too far away from the internal origin (you should always have this visible so you can see where you are. Turn it on by going to Tools>Origin>Locate internal origin), otherwise the rounding of large numbers will play tricks with your geometry and the overall performance.

There are several ways you can achieve this.

If your file is NOT Georeferenced: Ensure all layers and classes are visible and selectable, select all (cmd A) and use the 'fit to objects' command to see everything. Then draw a circle around all the geometry (remember - ALL the geometry has to be included, even that tiny rogue text block fifty miles from the main drawing area). If the circle is more than 5km in radius, move your geometry closer to each other. Important - ensure that the centre of the circle is on a whole number (so the origin will end up on a whole x and y) - otherwise you'll never be able to precicely  align your model with somebody else's work if you export it.

Next step is to go to Tools>Origin>Centre drawing on internal origin. This will do what it says on the box - the drawing will be centred on the internal origin. It will not affect your x and y coordinates.

 

If your file is georeferenced, you have to set up the file correctly with the project origin lining up with the internal origin before you import anything. This is a vital step and should be included in the template setup.

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Thanks for the feedback!

It did that graphical bug to me when my file's origin was set to the center of the model and the model was "only" 2km wide and 2km long. One time before that it was only a tiny house where the same graphical bug appeared with the same internal origin centered in the house model. Weird, but i'll keep that in mind. Thanks.

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Often you end up with an object "off in space" that will cause this problem. It does not matter how much of the drawing is distant from the origin, only that something is distant.

 

If you Select All and Fit to Objects in both a Top or Top/Plan view (to see if there are objects a long way out in X or Y) and an elevation view (to see if there are objects a long way out in the Z direction) and you get zoom way out, then you know you have objects way out in space. Do a Marquee selection around the corners of the zoomed area and see if you get any objects selected. If you are brave, just delete them. If you are not so brave, or just curious, zoom in and see what the objects are.

 

Take a look at this post from @Jeremy Best for a more in depth explaination.

 

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1 minute ago, Pat Stanford said:

Often you end up with an object "off in space" that will cause this problem. It does not matter how much of the drawing is distant from the origin, only that something is distant.

 

Been there, done that. 🙂 No solution.

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;-)

 

I posted this not so much for your benefit (I figured you already knew this), but because I use the forum as an external brain and want to be able to find (and for others searching to find) the basics of this on almost any thread where there is a discussion on objects out in space. It is a relatively difficult concept for a lot of people to understand, both because it is a computer and it SHOULD be able to handle anything and also because they did not put stuff 1000 km away, so there shouldn't be anything out there.

 

In your sample image, what are you considering the artifacts and what do you think the image should look like?

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1 minute ago, Pat Stanford said:

😉

 

... I use the forum as an external brain...

 

In your sample image, what are you considering the artifacts and what do you think the image should look like?

Great thinking! 😉

 

Well...it should look like a basic 3D extrude. Not like this:
😄

Screenshot 2020-08-11 at 17.30.22.png

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I don't know how I missed that it was a movie and not just a screen shot. Sorry about that.

 

If you are on Windows, have you updated your graphics card drivers recently? If not, that would be my next suggestion.

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54 minutes ago, Pat Stanford said:

I don't know how I missed that it was a movie and not just a screen shot. Sorry about that.

 

If you are on Windows, have you updated your graphics card drivers recently? If not, that would be my next suggestion.

 

Im on mac, but this thing is around since VW2016-17 as far as i know. Never seen this on MiniCad though. 😄

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Unfortunately, I think that its your fault (same as its my fault when I try to do something),  call me daft, but whenever I create a drawing, I would like VW do do what I ask, and every time I get told the that it doesn't render properly is because "I haven't set up the drawing origins properly???"

 

 

Please remember:

  • We always deliberately setup drawings hundreds or thousands of miles or kilometres away from the origin - don't we ??? 
  • We have no intention of ever interacting with other consultants or god forbid having someone set out a building or site from our drawings ??
  • We don't want to be able to use geo-referencing or import a geo-image and have it land correctly onto our site??
  • We don't want to be able to import or export with the knowledge that it is correct ??
  • We don't really ever want to create a simple thing like a rendered elevation??

Come on VW, being serious for a minute.  This is a problem with the basic programming.  If it is so important for the the program to be at the drawing origin / internal origin etc. etc. to be able to create a basic render - do something that makes the drawing origin / internal original go to the centre of the drawing, but don't play with the coordinate system - that is what we use to set thing out.

 

When I download an OS Map from Promap (in the UK), the coordinate system is already setup so that when I drop in a topographical survey, it should align perfectly, and guess what - it does. You have to remember that we also export files for others to site use and the universal format is dwg - not VW. Also when building new properties (in the UK), there is a thing called DPA (Deed Plan Approval) - this is an electronic title that the keeper directly imports and generates the title plan from and guess what, it has to be generated in a dwg format and it also has to be coordinated to the OS grid (the same one that was used form downloading the original OS Map from). If a user based coordinate system is present on the drawing, guess what - it doesn't work.

 

VW can you please stop berating us for just wanting the program to work and listen to the constant repeating statement - there is a problem.

 

My suggestion (very basic as it is).

 

  1. Assume that everyone will be designing a structure that has a real world location - and that it will not be centred on 0,0,0 - it will positioned to match the real world coordinates for whatever country they are in and allow the program too change its internal origin to suit, but without changing any coordinates that we as users would use.
  2. If someone wants to use a shifted UCS - let them do it, but please do not assume that it is the norm
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On 8/11/2020 at 2:56 AM, Katarina Ollikainen said:

Hmm, that's strange. Do you have a sample file you can post? I'll have a look

@Kazemester might you be able to post a file that has this issue so we can check it out?

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@Kevin C All CAD software requires the geometry to be close to its internal origin. For projects where real world coordinates are required, that's what the user coordinate system is for. Once the agreed project coordination point is set in the user coordinate system and positioned over the internal origin, real world coordinates will be preserved, and geometry will be where it should be. GIS files will also line up if this is required. I ran a webinar recently that covered this very topic:
 

https://university.vectorworks.net/mod/page/view.php?id=617

 

In addition, I would be more than happy to arrange a time to go through a workflow with you that will ensure your real world coordinates are preserved and that you are able to coordinate with your wider project team without compromise. Please let me know if you would like to arrange this.

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Tasmin,

 

There is a basic misconception in that we should be working in anything other than real world coordinates.

 

Project coordination is critical to the exchange, in VW to confuse matters, there is a drawing origin as well as an internal origin.  I have watched your webinar a number of times and it assumes that we all work of local grids and that we can decide where the origin is placed and in the 'rare' occasion when you need real world coordinates you have to ensure that the drawing is set up correctly. - WHY!!!! The UK templates already have the OS coordinate system input, so why does it not work.

 

Too give you an understanding of how my projects are set up (site layouts etc.) - not individual designs

  1. Start with a blank metric template
  2. Import the OS Map (geo-referenced) - using the settings below

180842929_Screenshot2020-08-17at15_09_07.thumb.png.3c9d73194908cb4bf664afe1d38db5bb.png

 

This warning comes up. However, I know that the OS map will have a distant origin (I.e. - 0,0,0 could be hundreds or thousands of miles away - but that is correct), because if it didn't, I wouldn't be able to generate coordinates or share with outside parties.

614287016_Screenshot2020-08-17at15_08_46.thumb.png.5057c81ea28e3e112b32213ebe91e5c8.png

  1. Do a quick check 'Geo-image' overlay to make sure that the site is correctly located according to VW (It always is doing it this way)
  2. Set the user origin to match the GeoRefencing coordinate system (If I don't do this, I cannot export a coordinated drawing)
  3. Import the topographical survey (if the above has been done, they will all overlay each other).  Neither myself or my clients will not commission surveys that are on a local grid.
  4. Start drawing the site layout

This works fine until I want to bring in a model (usually by referencing).  The building model is always created on a local grid (centre of drawing on 0,0,0 etc.), but when brought into a real world scenario, it just fails.

 

 It is so easy to make a simple change that knocks the whole system out.

 

1 hour ago, Tamsin Slatter said:

Once the agreed project coordination point is set in the user coordinate system and positioned over the internal origin, real world coordinates will be preserved

I'm afraid to say - this statement is incorrect.  VW does not do this.  If you look back in the tickets I currently have an outstanding ticket on this matter (from April I believe) with this exact same problem.

 

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I will look into that ticket for you. Meanwhile, I reiterate that I will be happy to spend some time with you on this. 

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@Kazemester Getting back to your original question, it would be very helpful to have one of your files in-hand so we can check it out. While this may be a distance from origin issue it could instead have something to do with the working plane. If you would like this looked into, please upload a file so we may assist.

 

-Neil

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Thanks for posting the file @Kazemester.

 

For what it's worth, before I open your file, this is the preview I see:

image.png

 

Then right after I open the file this is what I see... no graphical issue:

image.png

 

Out of curiosity, what are the full specs of you computer? (It would be helpful to add the details to your Forum signature.) 

And since you mention you've had this issue for many versions, have you had the same computer the entire time too?

 

I'll keep taking a look at your file and see if I can recreate the issue.

 

-Neil

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Neil Barman said:

Thanks for posting the file @Kazemester.

 

For what it's worth, before I open your file, this is the preview I see:

image.png

Then right after I open the file this is what I see... no graphical issue:

 

Out of curiosity, what are the full specs of you computer? (It would be helpful to add the details to your Forum signature.) 

And since you mention you've had this issue for many versions, have you had the same computer the entire time too?

 

If you zoom in on it, there is still weird. I have this issue here and there sometimes, but my workflow is pretty much the same all the time. Sometimes it happens sometimes it doesn't.

I use a MacBook Pro 8 core i9 with 64gb ram and AMD Radeon Pro 5500M 8 GB GPU. Latest Osx and latest VW sp...

Edited by Kazemester

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13 minutes ago, Kazemester said:

 

If you zoom in on it, there is still weird. I have this issue here and there sometimes, but my workflow is pretty much the same all the time. Sometimes it happens sometimes it doesn't.

Thanks. Now I see it. It begins when I zoom in to 38,547% and the "hatching" gets more dense as I zoom in closer.

 

Now, what is causing you to need to zoom in that close or closer?

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Just now, Neil Barman said:

Thanks. Now I see it. It begins when I zoom in to 38,547% and the "hatching" gets more dense as I zoom in closer.

 

Now, what is causing you to need to zoom in that close or closer?

 

It was just n example, sometimes you don't have to zoom in that close.

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7 minutes ago, Kazemester said:

 

It was just n example, sometimes you don't have to zoom in that close.

Do you mean that sometimes you don't have to zoom in that close to see the graphical bug that you are getting? If so, can you share a file that shows the graphical issue without having to zoom in as far as one has to with the "weird graphic" file?

 

If this is indeed a bug we would like to be able to identify it and correct it.

 

Thanks.

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2 minutes ago, Neil Barman said:

Do you mean that sometimes you don't have to zoom in that close to see the graphical bug that you are getting? If so, can you share a file that shows the graphical issue without having to zoom in as far as one has to with the "weird graphic" file?

 

If this is indeed a bug we would like to be able to identify it and correct it.

 

Thanks.

Yes.

I know i know, i've been talking about this with @Tamsin Slatter before, but i just can't find any of my older files that had these issues. I usually just copy-pasted parts of them to a new file to make them look good without the weird graphical issue than i deleted the weird ones. I try to recreate the bug somehow and i'll send the file to you. Thanks.

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I have a different, but hopefully related problem.  I am doing mechanical engineering design.  I have two problems.

 

1. I can’t find any way to place an object at the center of the dwg.  I use the Center on Internal Origin, which places the object at the center of the Top/Plan view, but in all other views the object is far from the center of the dwg.  I have to drag the object in several views to get to the origin.

 

2. If I want to draw something next to (or attached to) the object, it jumps completely off screen and may require a lot of searching and dragging (or MOVing) to get it back anywhere near the center or original object.

 

Is there a simple way to get objects on center and to stay there?

Edited by BenG

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