Jump to content
JuanP

2021 - Teaser Tuesday: 3D Modeling Enhancements

Recommended Posts

Looks promising - I use that subface mode of the push pull tool a lot so the time saving with what looks like a fewer-clicks method will be very welcome.

 

One question though, a frustrating limitation of the push-pull tool is that when you use that sub-face mode, you can only "extrude" the sub-face, not "move" it, as per the "move face" mode.

 

Will that remain the case?

Share this post


Link to post

Hi,

 

good to see, that the Push/Pull-Tool gets more love.

… but i think it gets less love i wish and report (for years) for the tool.

 

Can the enhanced Push/Pull-Tool:

 

- Push/Pull Lines and Endpoints (not only Surfaces) of every possible 3D-Geometry? (3 Modes: Line Mode, Point Mode, Surface Mode)

- Push/Pull every possible organic Surfaces (not flat ones), maybe to give them a thickness, or expand/reduce a round hole?

- Push/Pull to thicken of every possible organic Surface in z-direction and orthogonal to surface?

- Push/Pull chamfer and rounded edges (to edit them)

 

… if the Push/Pull Tool are enhanced in this direction, it gets to the one of the most powerfull tools in VW (and i do not need Sketchup anymore). 

… if not. You know what to do for Push/Pull 2022!

 

Greetings from Germany

Toby

Share this post


Link to post

Can't wait to see how the push pull works on 3D polygons.  Hate to have to go back to 2D bezier modes on free form grading.  Would also love being able to push pull a group of flowing polygons to stretch out one side of a designed mound/earthform/hill.

Share this post


Link to post
4 hours ago, line-weight said:

Looks promising - I use that subface mode of the push pull tool a lot so the time saving with what looks like a fewer-clicks method will be very welcome.

 

One question though, a frustrating limitation of the push-pull tool is that when you use that sub-face mode, you can only "extrude" the sub-face, not "move" it, as per the "move face" mode.

 

Will that remain the case?

 

@line-weight, Thanks for showing interest on this enhancement

Adding move face capability in "sub-face" mode is a great idea, we will look into this.

Since Move Face results with Generic Solid (lost all its history), we will look into preserve the history for this operation.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, Tobias Kern said:

- Push/Pull Lines and Endpoints (not only Surfaces) of every possible 3D-Geometry? (3 Modes: Line Mode, Point Mode, Surface Mode)

- Push/Pull every possible organic Surfaces (not flat ones), maybe to give them a thickness, or expand/reduce a round hole?

- Push/Pull to thicken of every possible organic Surface in z-direction and orthogonal to surface?

- Push/Pull chamfer and rounded edges (to edit them)

 

@Tobias Kern, Thanks for providing direction to grow this tool.

 

we are looking to provide support for non-planar faces in Push/Pull tool, and dealing edges for fillet or chamfer operation.

Moving edge and point in 3D modeling - we will explore the possibility for 3D solids.  But It is possible for polygon modeler, Vectorworks Subdivision modeling is capable to do that, you can set the Subdivision Iteration to 0, to get the polygon modeler behavior.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, Senthil Prabu said:

 

@line-weight, Thanks for showing interest on this enhancement

Adding move face capability in "sub-face" mode is a great idea, we will look into this.

Since Move Face results with Generic Solid (lost all its history), we will look into preserve the history for this operation.

 

Thanks. Having the edit history too would be a bonus.

 

I actually already asked for it 4 years ago!

 

 

Edited by line-weight

Share this post


Link to post

Hi All,

 

I'm a Rhinoceros + Spaceclaim user, I use both for 3d design and cleaning solids.
For example in Spaceclaim I import step or x_t files, delete holes and fillets and simplify the geometry.
In Rhinoceros I add surfaces to complete the design.
I'd like to know if Vectorworks Designer could replace both programs.

 

regards.

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, gabrielefx said:

Hi All,

 

I'm a Rhinoceros + Spaceclaim user, I use both for 3d design and cleaning solids.
For example in Spaceclaim I import step or x_t files, delete holes and fillets and simplify the geometry.
In Rhinoceros I add surfaces to complete the design.
I'd like to know if Vectorworks Designer could replace both programs.

 

regards.

You'd be better asking this question in the general part of the forum, I think. This thread is about an upcoming new feature that none of us have used yet!

Share this post


Link to post

I'm looking forward to showing these features to my students. They will have a lot of fun with the 3D in Vectorworks 2021!

 

Best regards, Marc

Share this post


Link to post
On 8/19/2020 at 4:54 PM, Senthil Prabu said:

 

@Tobias Kern, Thanks for providing direction to grow this tool.

 

we are looking to provide support for non-planar faces in Push/Pull tool, and dealing edges for fillet or chamfer operation.

Moving edge and point in 3D modeling - we will explore the possibility for 3D solids.  But It is possible for polygon modeler, Vectorworks Subdivision modeling is capable to do that, you can set the Subdivision Iteration to 0, to get the polygon modeler behavior.

 

 

 

 

hi senthil,

 

thnx for your answer.

i think the push/pull tool has so many capabilities, in so many ways.

thats why i love sketchup so much, easy and intuitive manipulation of 3d objects.

btw i love vw very much too, but sketchup is way faster in work with 3d solids

(in my way i build 3d content).

im so fast in sketchup, i wished i could reach this speed in vw too.

 

vw is getting better, but have some major limitations.

these limitations have to go.

i know sketchup is only a polygon modeler, with other weaknesses.

 

for me as user, in vw i also want the easy, intuitive and fast way to

work on and with 3d objects. vw has to many different 3d modes/objects:

3d polygon, point objects, nurbs, subdivision, ...

 

often i have to convert one mode into another, because i cant do

some specific operation not in that mode and that is, i think

we users dont want to do. with every conversion come some lost.

 

make it easier for us. one kind can fits all,

if possible. why not all 3d objects are solids, but the surface is calculated

like the need is for (read below).

 

3d objects exists of points, edges and surfaces.

points and edges are relative easy to descripe andcalculate in 3d space

surfaces are different and can be calculated in different methods.

common are. quad faces (like subdivision), triangulated or nurbs surfaces, and maybe many more.

so i think the method surfaces are build is the hardest way in the developing.

 

so whats to do in my opinion:

 

- only one mode for 3d object with all strenghts of the above mentioned, if convertions are neccesary do it in the code background of vw

- push/pull tool to manipulate edges, points, surfaces (most work can done with one tool)

- the surfaces are build by three different modes: quad faces (like subdivision), triangulated or nurbs-surface

- you can choose which surface mode is standard for new objects, but you can convert the surfaces mode into another if it fits better for the needs

- a new scale tool for 3d objects like the fantastic sketchup scale tool (watch some videos of it)

 with the skp scale tool you can do some good operations like mirroring, or give the object a new height, lenght, width in the direction (x, y,z) you want

- gumball like rhino, maybe a gumball could do the scale operations i mentioned two lines above and do the push/pull operations

  a gumball is not the badest idea for that, because the gumball is visually easy to understand how it works.

- more usefull 3d commands like rhino have

 

it is a matter close to my heart, that vw is getting better in 3d modelling,

because i see the possible potential in this software.

if i was a billionaire, i would give you the money to make my wishes come true.

 

/ / /

 

you mentioned subdivision modelling in your answer. i know i can do

some specific operations with this method, but often you never stay in that mode.

if you want to do other operation like creating a shell, or whatever.

you have to convert and loose some strengths.

 

greetings from germany and hope i had descriped my ideas with an relative good english

tobi

 

 

please also read my ideas here:

 

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

this is from the handbook of vw 2020

 

Several commands, primarily but not exclusively available through the Modify > Convert commands, convert one kind of object into another, for different kinds of manipulation using the other tools and commands.

 

http://app-help.vectorworks.net/2020/eng/index.htm#t=VW2020_Guide%2FShapes2%2F3D_modeling.htm

 

all different kinds of manipulation should be possible with one kind of 3d object!

Share this post


Link to post
On 9/12/2020 at 11:55 PM, Tobias Kern said:

 

hi senthil,

 

thnx for your answer.

i think the push/pull tool has so many capabilities, in so many ways.

thats why i love sketchup so much, easy and intuitive manipulation of 3d objects.

btw i love vw very much too, but sketchup is way faster in work with 3d solids

(in my way i build 3d content).

im so fast in sketchup, i wished i could reach this speed in vw too.

 

vw is getting better, but have some major limitations.

these limitations have to go.

i know sketchup is only a polygon modeler, with other weaknesses.

 

for me as user, in vw i also want the easy, intuitive and fast way to

work on and with 3d objects. vw has to many different 3d modes/objects:

3d polygon, point objects, nurbs, subdivision, ...

 

often i have to convert one mode into another, because i cant do

some specific operation not in that mode and that is, i think

we users dont want to do. with every conversion come some lost.

 

make it easier for us. one kind can fits all,

if possible. why not all 3d objects are solids, but the surface is calculated

like the need is for (read below).

 

3d objects exists of points, edges and surfaces.

points and edges are relative easy to descripe andcalculate in 3d space

surfaces are different and can be calculated in different methods.

common are. quad faces (like subdivision), triangulated or nurbs surfaces, and maybe many more.

so i think the method surfaces are build is the hardest way in the developing.

 

so whats to do in my opinion:

 

- only one mode for 3d object with all strenghts of the above mentioned, if convertions are neccesary do it in the code background of vw

- push/pull tool to manipulate edges, points, surfaces (most work can done with one tool)

- the surfaces are build by three different modes: quad faces (like subdivision), triangulated or nurbs-surface

- you can choose which surface mode is standard for new objects, but you can convert the surfaces mode into another if it fits better for the needs

- a new scale tool for 3d objects like the fantastic sketchup scale tool (watch some videos of it)

 with the skp scale tool you can do some good operations like mirroring, or give the object a new height, lenght, width in the direction (x, y,z) you want

- gumball like rhino, maybe a gumball could do the scale operations i mentioned two lines above and do the push/pull operations

  a gumball is not the badest idea for that, because the gumball is visually easy to understand how it works.

- more usefull 3d commands like rhino have

 

it is a matter close to my heart, that vw is getting better in 3d modelling,

because i see the possible potential in this software.

if i was a billionaire, i would give you the money to make my wishes come true.

 

/ / /

 

you mentioned subdivision modelling in your answer. i know i can do

some specific operations with this method, but often you never stay in that mode.

if you want to do other operation like creating a shell, or whatever.

you have to convert and loose some strengths.

 

greetings from germany and hope i had descriped my ideas with an relative good english

tobi

 

 

please also read my ideas here:

 

 

 

Agreed on all of this.

Share this post


Link to post

@Senthil Prabu

 

Hi Senthil,

 

greetings and hope your are well.

 

I watched Youtube-Video from the german distributor (Computerworks).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00B5lhF_tL0&t=1019s&ab_channel=Vectorworksdeutsch

The name of the video is: "Modeling in Vectorworks - easy as in SketchUp".

 

I think that is not 100% correct.

For me there is an important difference.

 

VW 2021 brings us an easier workflow, e.g. now you can

separate solids with lines, polygons, nurbs, ...

… but you have to manipulate (push/pull) the solid directly,

after you draw the line (poylgon, nurbs, ...) on the solid.

 

I think it should be possible to separate faces of solids

as it is now, but you don't have to manipulate the solid directly afterwards.

 

The line (polygon, nurbs, ...) should separate a solidface permanent.

and it should be possible to erase the separation if you want, by deleting

the separationline. VW should combine the two separated faces automatically

to one face (if the two faces are oriented in the same direction in 3d space to each other).

 

If you could implement such a feature, you have much more possibilities in manipulation

of the solid, e.g. you can do other manipulations with other tools (bevel-tool,  deform-tool, ...).

 

As now you only can do a push/pull manipulation of the solid.

 

With my idea implemented, then "Modeling in Vectorworks - easy as in SketchUp"

is close to 100% right!

 

Conclusion:

- lines, polygons, nurbs, ... can separate faces of solids permanently!

- separations can be removed by deleting the separating geometry (lines, polygons, nurbs, ...)!

- separated faces should automatically be combined, after a deletion of the separating geometry.

  (if the faces are oriented in the same direction (plane) in 3d space)

- separated faces of solids, should be manipulated with all possible 3d-tools.

… then it is easy as in SketchUp!

 

/ / / 

 

We also need more 3D-info, in the information-palette.

 

For 2D-Object we have this:

139321430_Bildschirmfoto2021-02-04um11_56_44.thumb.png.d0b001f574c00a65ab368f3cf6ab95ce.png

 

We definitely need this for all 3D objects.

with the information of 9-points for top,

9-points for mid, 9-points for bottom.

 

so we can get the information of 27 points

of the bounding box (it the object is not e.g. a

dice) of the object.

 

/ / / 

What AutoCAD makes good in the user-interface:

 

1028049075_Bildschirmfoto2021-02-04um12_20_50.thumb.png.59729358c270b5c328900c8a34120586.png

 

I wish we could have something similar for VW.

 

/ / / 

 

As for the multiple drawing view:

The views should not be changeable (or be logged) in the view itself.

 

In Rhino 3D the front view always stay as a front view,

the side view as side view, and so on ...

The perspective view stays as a perspective.

You only can change this in the settings. 

 

In VW you could change a orthogonal view to a perspective view

direct in the drawing window. This is much to easy to change and

not so a good solution. Rhino does it better (i think!).

 

/ / /

 

… and the info of the actual 3d-volume (m3), complete 3d-area (m2)

in the palette, from the selected 3d-object.

 

… also it would be nice, if we can select several faces from a 3d object

and we can get the the whole selected area (m2), as it is possible with

2d surfaces.

 

… and as mentioned before wishes (read in older replies in this thread)

- push/pull: point-/edge-/face-mode

- push/pull of non planar faces

- gumbal for 3d-object like rhino (not only in subdivision mode).

 

Greetings and stay healty

Tobi

Share this post


Link to post

@Tobias Kern Hi Tobi,

 

Thanks for your interest and valuable input...

 

The intension of adding push/pull mode in most of the 2D object tools (line, polyline, etc), is to provide push/pull capability instantly, without changing to push/pull tool (as in sketchup). 

 

Split the face permanently once 2d object created: we will look into this.

 

Thanks,

Senthil prabu

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

Hi Senthil,

 

greetings and thnx for your answer.

 

The intension, your mentioned, in VW was a good choice,

but i hope this is only the beginning for a much better

push/pull and overall 3D experience in VW.

 

I never can't give up to think about VW and find ideas

for improvements, because i love VW (and hate it a little, in the same time

because i know so much different 3D software and their strengths. Often i

think this would be cool, if we can use something similar in VW).

 

Hope my dreams come truth and i can retire Sketchup in the future.

As for now it is not possible, because im much faster (and more fun, sorry!)

in 3d-modeling inside SKP.

 

… lets bring the smart and easy way of modeling from SKP to VW for

the full satisfying experience.

 

Greetings and looking forward to the next sneakpeak session /

roadmap update.

 

Tobi

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
On 2/4/2021 at 3:29 AM, Tobias Kern said:

As for the multiple drawing view:

The views should not be changeable (or be logged) in the view itself.

 

In Rhino 3D the front view always stay as a front view,

the side view as side view, and so on ...

The perspective view stays as a perspective.

You only can change this in the settings. 

 

In VW you could change a orthogonal view to a perspective view

direct in the drawing window. This is much to easy to change and

not so a good solution. Rhino does it better (i think!).

 

 

Rhino is excellent for 3D modeling but I may be misunderstanding what you’re looking for… 

 

Multiple views in VW are insanely configurable and powerful. Here’s a recent screenshot of when I was testing how far I could take it, and eventually just stopped because it was getting ridiculous. Tearing off the views is one of my favorite features. Likewise, I don’t see any issue with limiting a custom config to only what you need.

 

Hope that helps!

 

1037975603_ScreenShot2021-01-30at7_28_44AM.thumb.png.d6766758e7238fcafb2b3becaddb5fc1.png

Edited by Mark Aceto
  • Love 1

Share this post


Link to post

Hi Mark,

 

greetings and thnx for your answer.

 

Maybe you misunderstood what i'm looking for.

 

I just want to save a standard in the multiple drawing windows (MDW) for my needs

and important: atm i can change the view in a MDW by using a shortcut = keypad numbers 1 – 9, or mid-mouse button + Control (Mac)

to change a view (from left to front, or from left to right, or from left to perspective ...) 

 

I want, that i can't change the view, by shortcut or something else in the MDW itself. The view should stay as i set it (left remains left).

The only way i want to change is over the setting menu of the MDW (top left in the MDW).

 

… and i want to save and load my wanted standard (if i changed it by mistake). 

 

There is no menu, where i can save my standards for MDW (but maybe i overlooked it!?).

 

Maybe we can have both ways.

1. setting for a fixed view

2. setting for a non fixed view (as it is now)

… both ways are possible.

 

In Rhino you can set the options you want in the drawing window.

I like this way and i find this is much better, because it is a

comprehensible behaviour.

 

Greetings, have a nice weekend and stay healthy.

Tobi

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

@Tobias Kern that's what I was wondering… 

 

What if there was a checkbox for Save Multiple Pane Views (in the attached screenshot)?

 

I’m also wondering if there’s a way to set or hack the default MVP to get closer to what you seek… 

 

1766909165_ScreenShot2021-02-06at10_02_42AM.thumb.png.235ad8e4b952ec7a60106437a7a2b452.png

Edited by Mark Aceto

Share this post


Link to post

I have to agree with @Tobias Kern. The orthoganal views should be locked. @Josh Loy A lock symbol would be handy. Especially on an individual window pane basis.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


 

7150 Riverwood Drive, Columbia, Maryland 21046, USA   |   Contact Us:   410-290-5114

 

© 2018 Vectorworks, Inc. All Rights Reserved. Vectorworks, Inc. is part of the Nemetschek Group.

×
×
  • Create New...