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Problems with Universe, U/A, Absolute address, and DMX Address fields with spotlight numbering and DMX Patch UI


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Hello,

I am attempting to address lighting devices in my design. First I am selecting lights and manually inputting 1 into the Universe field in the OIP.  Then, I open Spotlight Numbering and check the DMX address field, highlight the DMX address line, and make the appropriate settings for sequential addressing. Then I manually begin selecting my lighting devices in the order I want them. 

After completing the numbering command, some fixture types do not obey the "DMX address" field numbering, and instead end up numbering "absolute address" instead. Why?

Furthermore, if I go into the DMX Patch GUI, any changes I make there say they are making changes to the DMX Address field, yet when I actually drag and drop them in the UI, either the User Address or Absolute Addresses are populated, while the DMX Address field stays at 1.

Why are there so many fields for DMX Address? Why is this happening? Because different fields are being populated with spotlight numbering, I am getting patch conflicts where there should be none, and random fixtures stay patched at address 1.

Screenshot 2020-08-09 13.55.34.png

Screenshot 2020-08-09 13.59.59.png

Screenshot 2020-08-09 14.01.21.png

Screenshot 2020-08-09 14.15.44.png

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  • Vectorworks, Inc Employee

From you images above it looks like your file was originally created in a older version of Spotlight, as your lighting devices are displaying a mixture of the old legacy data fields and the new 2020 fields in the OIP.

 

There were a number of changes made in 2020 to the DMX related fields, both in how they are named and in functionality.

The fields 'User address' and 'User U address' were removed

The fields 'DMX Address', 'Universe' and 'Universe/Address' were added.

and all the DMX related fields have been linked in the background, so if you update or change one of them the others will also update.

 

You should be able to fix this issue by using the replace instrument command from the Spotlight menu, with the updated symbol from the Spotlight default libraries.

Be aware though that you will probably need to re-patch the lighting devices, as due to the changes the data fields will not map correctly between the 2019 symbols and the 2020 symbols. The only work around that I am aware of to fix the mapping issue currently is to use the absolute address field to document the DMX address before running the replace instrument command.

 

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This also threw my numbering off for a while.

I was able to get it to work *without* updating all of my customized symbols to the generic Spotlight "default library" versions.

(By customized I mean dedicated line weight, class structure, and colorized labels for symbols - stuff that would be annoying to re-do)

 

My process was to go to Spotlight - Spotlight Preferences - Parameters (this is where you drag and drop to customize the OIP's display order... or what shows and what is hidden when a Lighting Device is selected.

 

Sure enough, the "User U Address" and "User Address" were being displayed even though according to Jesse, they "were removed". I guess this means that they just aren't recognized by vwx anymore, but that they weren't deleted?

 

I unchecked those from "Show in Shape pane", and dragged them to the bottom of the list. I made sure "Universe", "DMX Address", and "Universe/Address" were grouped together up high for visibility's sake. (If you make changes here, don't forget to Save whatever customized ordering you have. It makes life much easier. Also, that "Save as default" checkbox in the bottom left is your friend). Once all that is set, you can confirm your new display order in the OIP when you select any lighting device.

 

That was when Spotlight Numbering of Addresses started working for me with the below process (specifics included in case this helps anyone):

I typically start with no fixtures selected (so that it will default to "manual" selection)... open up Spotlight Numbering.

Select a check in "Use" for Universe. Typically when I do this, it's by position, so I click "Apply the same numbering to all units". Then I just put in the Universe # into "Start".

Also select a check in "Use" for DMX Address. Typically I'll do "Automatically increment the numbering" & then "Increment by DMX Footprint and offset:" because I like to make it easy for the Head LX. So, if I know the DMX Footprint is 47, but I want it to be a clean "jump" of 50, I put 3 in as my offset. *As long as I have properly setup the DMX Footprint*

Then I click ok and number away. Outcome is as expected. 5 units are incrementing in the order I clicked them: 2/1, 2/51, 2/101, 2/151, 2/201. All (3) fields relating to u/address are updated in the background. (4) if you include "Absolute Address".

 

Hopefully that helps someone!

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  • Vectorworks, Inc Employee
8 hours ago, wkdeugenio said:

Sure enough, the "User U Address" and "User Address" were being displayed even though according to Jesse, they "were removed". I guess this means that they just aren't recognized by vwx anymore, but that they weren't deleted?

Because the file was created in 2019 the fields will display in 2020 (or if you are using 2019 and older symbol definitions in a new 2020 file), we couldn't remove the fields completely otherwise users would not be able to work on old plans without loosing all the patch data.

If you look at the lighting device parameters dialogue you will see that it will display as customized and not default when a 2019  file is loaded. This is why the parameters will continue to display even after replacing the fixtures with the 2020 version. If you later change to the default parameter set the fields are automatically moved to the bottom of the list and set to not be visible in the OIP. You can also use the dialogue to remove the fields completely if you so desire (or add new ones)

 

 

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, jcogdell said:

If you look at the lighting device parameters dialogue you will see that it will display as customized and not default when a 2019  file is loaded.

Huh. This is not the behavior for me. When I loaded a 2019 file yesterday, the lighting dev. params defaulted to an old settings "saved set" from 2016, not just "customized". When I loaded a 2019 file just now, it defaulted to my 2020 saved settings. Any ideas why I'm not seeing the expected behavior? Maybe this is related to not using the "default" save as the typical save?

Thanks Jesse for your insight!

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  • Vectorworks, Inc Employee

If you create a new blank file in 2020 using the default lighting device parameters you will not see the old parameters.

The reason the old parameters exist when opening an older file is that we could not translate what we now call "User U Address" and "User Address" to the new 2020 fields with 100% accuracy.

People used the fields in all kinds of different ways, so we preserved the 2019 data in the "User U Address" and "User Address" fields and try to migrate the data to the new fields automatically. If the information was not in a form we could understand the existing data would be preserved in "User U Address" and "User Address" and could be manually transferred to the new data fields or the manually updated in the user fields.

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On 8/11/2020 at 2:58 PM, klinzey said:

People used the fields in all kinds of different ways, so we preserved the 2019 data in the "User U Address" and "User Address" fields and try to migrate the data to the new fields automatically.

This makes sense, for sure. Thanks for this insight, Kevin! It makes sense that they had to be preserved.

 

Do you or @jcogdell have an explanation for why I was seeing an old customized save set of mine when opening a 2019 file? When a 2019 file is opened in 2020 for me, the Lighting Device Parameters Dialogue isn't displaying as "customized and not default", which Jesse has described above as the expected behavior. It either displays as an old saved set (2016) or as my new saved set (2020). I'm opening these old files for the first time in Vwx 2020 and seeing this behavior. 

 

I also simply could have misunderstood what Jesse said. Thanks in advance,

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  • Vectorworks, Inc Employee

Current customization are saved with the file. So when you open a old file in 2020 that had customized parameters you should see those customized parameters in 2020 and the saves settings should show as customized. Your customized settings are saved in your user folder, so if you migrated your user folder from one version to another you may be seeing your saved set options you created in the prior version.

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