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Title Block Text is Huge

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When I create a drawing boarder in a particular file the title block text is huge, (500 in. or more) It doesn't happen in new files. But it happens in this file on new layers.

The layer scales are 1:1 and 1:2. Any idea how I can fix this file? It holds months worth of effort.

[ 03-30-2004, 01:39 PM: Message edited by: Spencer ]

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Here's a solution (work around) to the title block scaling problem.

First, I'm using Vectorworks 10.5.1 on OS 9.2.2

In a previous post (1-16-04) AnaisR says the problem doesn't happen with ASME title blocks. I find it does.

If you create a title block in a 1:1 layer all is fine. Then create a title block in a 1:2 layer. The block does not scale with the border and thus is twice as big.

If you delete it, cycle back to the 1:1 layer and again to the 1:2 layer, it will grow by 2 again.

In the previous post (1-16-04) we learned to put the title block on a separate 1:1 layer. If you never created a title block on a 1:2 layer the problem does not appear, and you can follow this advice.

However, what if you make the mistake after putting months of effort into a multi-layered drawing? How do you salvage your efforts and get back to a nornal sized block?

Copying the design to a new file is impractical if you can not afford to lose your linked layers (they won't copy.)

A solution: Apparently the title block grows (does not scale) when going from 1:1 to 1:2, but does not shrink again when returning to 1:1. So it becomes too big at 1:1. Title blocks which were OK when you made them are now huge. Cycle between 1:1 and 1:2 layers creating blocks several times trying to get it to work and you can ratchet up to 120 ft wide title blocks.

However, if you go from 1:1 to 1x2 (enlarge) the current huge title block size shrinks by a factor of 2. So measure that title block and make new layer with the appropriate enlargement factor and create a title block in that layer to restore it back to the proper size.

You can use this trick to make smaller title blocks if you like.

BTW, this will recover from the problem but not eliminate it. Title blocks created in a 1:2 layer will also shrink when you create the new smaller one. You can not "fix" the one in the 1:2 layer without messing up the other ones.

[Also, make sure you work with the title, tolerance and projection blocks together. If some layers have one and not the other the scales will get out of synch, some huge, some small.]

The proper way to handle title blocks is described in the previously cited post. Now you have a way to recover so you can implement it after you screw up.

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If I understand the problem correctly, the title block (which I assume is a symbol) was created while on a layer with a scale of 1:2. The drawing border and title blocks (both the ASME and Custom) are designed to work together so that they can be placed on a layer of any scale and the border and title block will be scaled accordingly. In order to do so, the title block symbol must be created while on a layer with a scale of 1:1. If it was not, here?s what you need to do:

1. Open the drawing with the errant title block.

2. In the Resource Browser, select the current drawing in the Open Files pop-up.

3. In the Resource Browser, select the title block symbol. (Depending on how the symbol was created, the symbol will be at the Top Level or in the Drawing Border Components symbol folder.) Under the Resources pop-up, select Edit. The Edit Symbol dialog opens.

4. Select the 2D Component radio button and click Edit. The symbol is now open for editing.

5. Select all of the components, and group them.

6. With the group selected, run the command Tool>Scale Objects?. The Scale Objects dialog opens.

7. In the Scale Objects dialog, select Symmetric and type in the inverse of the scale factor of the layer the symbol was created on. For instance if the symbol was created on a layer with a scale of 1:2, use 1/2 (0.5). If the symbol was created on a layer with a scale of 1:4, use 1/4 (0.25), etc.

8. Check the Scale text check box and make sure the Entire drawing check box is deselected and click OK.

9. While the group is still selected, grab the bottom right corner and move this corner to the point 0, 0.

10. Press Exit Symbol at the right end of the Mode Bar.

This should correct the problem and the next time you regenerate the drawing border (by changing any field on the Object Info palette) the title block should return to normal.

Tom Urie

Nemetschek North America

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Thanks for the instructions on how to correct an errant title block scale. They are clear and helpful.

You are correct in assuming I created a title block in a 1:2 layer. Following your suggestion of creating it in a 1:1 layer and then transfering a copy (select a new layer in the object info palette) of the boarder and title block to a different 1:2 layer maintains the proper scale relationship between the boarder and title block components. It also resizes properly in the 1:2 layer if you click "fit to page."

But, if you return to the 1:1 layer to view the original boarder and title block created properly at 1:1, it is now messed up. The title, tolerance and projection blocks are the wrong scale and overlap one another. Redraw fixes the overlap, but not the scale problem. I assume if I follow the instuctions of the previous post, I can fix the 1:1 layer's title block but will mess up the 1:2 layer's title block.

I still conclude that a bug prevents having scaled boarders and title blocks on layers of different scales at the same time. Perhpas you could have two separate symbols at two different scales. But that is inconsistent with the concept of using symbols.

I believe the solution you gave earlier in the post of 1-16-2004 is still the best answer.

[ 04-05-2004, 11:27 PM: Message edited by: Spencer ]

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You are correct. In a given drawing, you can only use the title block in layers of the same scale because the drawing border scales the symbol definition, that is, the symbol in the symbol library. Therefore all symbol instances in the drawing will also be scaled.

The only solution to this problem is to put each drawing border on a separate layer of the same scale. You can then make a drawing layer and its border layer both visible and all other layers invisible and save this as a sheet. Then it's a simple matter of using the Sheets Menu to return to the sheet for viewing or printing.

I would welcome comments from anyone on which of these choices is preferable:

1. Having all drawing borders on layers of the same scale, say 1:1. For viewing or printing you can create ?sheets? for each drawing that displays the drawing layer and border layer.

2. Having title blocks of different scales so the drawing border can be at the same scale and on the same layer as the drawing.

Tom Urie

Nemetschek, N.A.

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I believe the boarder and title block scale is more related to the paper size of different sheets than the scale on the layers visible on that sheet. The problem involves having different boarder scales when you specify different paper sizes for various sheets. I am using the term "sheets" to be synonomous with "drawing." Also, I am assuming a 3D asssembly on one layer, and several other layers with 2D details of the various parts in the assy. Complex parts with multiple views may need larger sheets regardless of the scale.

The scaling function works very well in the boarder object info box. The problem, as you have stated, is that it scales the library symbol not an instance of the symbol on a particular layer of the drawing.

In my opinion the most effective solution is a combination of option 1 and 2. That is allow me to create a format layer for each paper size I am going to use. Permit a boarder and title block of the appropriate scale on each format layer (option 2) so I can make that layer visible along with any drawing layers using that paper size (option 1.)

An advantage of this approach is I only have to fill in the common title block data (my name, the file name) once for each sheet size, on the format layers. The drawing specific info (title, number, rev etc.) can go on each drawing specific layer. I can still use multiple layers per detail drawing and even mix scales on a drawing with layers of different scales being visible.

The last question this raises, can a sheet remember the paper size associated with it, like documents remember page setup? Sounds like a job for vectorscript.

BTW, this is the drawing strategy discussion I was looking for about a month ago. If this discussion is valuable to others, I hope it doesn't go unnoticed buried down here at response # 7


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