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Mac Silicon OS and VW


Don Seidel

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15 hours ago, zoomer said:

AFAIK

M1 USB C may be ready for TB4.

Some said this is just a legal thing, although Apple developed TB with Intel.

While USB 4 standard includes (free?) TB3.

 

 

Sure, it is difficult to know what the M1 chip can or cannot do (as only Apple really knows it). And as far as I have understood, at least part of the hardware would be TB4-ready... but it is like with USB, the slowest link dictates the speed.

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Is it still the way that if I plug a single USB 2 device into

a USB 3 Hub, that alle other devices will also get only

USB 2 speed ?

So necessary to sort your USB devices and use separate

USB outputs for each USB Speed Hub ?

(Which is basically what I still do)

 

For example, when make use of the USB 3 Hub of my Wacom

Cintiq and plug a USB 2 CADMouse in, external USB 3 SSD

cases would also run USB 2 speed only at the Wacom Hub ?

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27 minutes ago, zoomer said:

Is it still the way that if I plug a single USB 2 device into

a USB 3 Hub, that alle other devices will also get only

USB 2 speed ?

So necessary to sort your USB devices and use separate

USB outputs for each USB Speed Hub ?

(Which is basically what I still do)

 

For example, when make use of the USB 3 Hub of my Wacom

Cintiq and plug a USB 2 CADMouse in, external USB 3 SSD

cases would also run USB 2 speed only at the Wacom Hub ?

 

Not sure about that. (I think there is a special mode in USB 3 to avoid that... but I am far from being a USB specialist.)

 

I meant more from CPU to device. No need of a USB 4 hub if your computer kann only do USB 3.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Just a quick note. I just got a mac mini m1 with 16mb, installed vectorworks 2021, opened a stage design with a ton of geometry and light fixtures and took it for a whirl in open GL. 

 

Its a pleasure! The same file on my 6 core trashcan with 32mb felt really heavy in switching to open GL in a 3d and rotating around. but this little sardine can does not even flinch. And it cost under a grand. First time (in 30 years) I ever got a bargain feeling out of apple.

 

Not going to get my hopes up quite yet, but so far this felt like a major upgrade. Who knows what rosetta bugs await.

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Here the same, can open the largest Projects and work with them

as good as on the PC.

 

But importing 255 MB Revit File in VW 2021 took 16 hours on M1 Mini !

Although my fastest single core performance machine.

(I thought something with Rosetta)

 

Unfortunately I tried the same Revit import on my PC with Ryzen 3950X

and 64 GB RAM. The 16 hours are long over and I think it will easily take

24 hours on my PC.

 

Big LOL for Apples M1 speed,

and also for the slowest Revit importing Software on Earth.

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18 hours ago, Vasil Kitanov said:

Hi @zoomer,

Could you please, send me this Revit file, so that we can investigate the issue with slow Revit import

Best regards,
Vasko

 

 

I would like to but unfortunately again under NDA.

 

It was a Revit 2019 file.

I don't think it is about that special file as a was used to that any real world

project test file Revit import is something for overnight calculation.

I think that is even for the Autodesk's site Revit Sample Files. Not many

hours but feels too slow.

I will search for another Revit File. (*)

 

I have my assumptions though.

The file contains a few cylindrical tanks and some furniture, also some rounding

around Door Jambs.

In VW, at least with 3D View and convert to VW Solids, these come fortunately in as Solids,

but for rounded objects like Cylinders, tessellated though.

Therefore (?) a resulting VW file size of 1TB from 255 MB Revit.

 

Have to look more close and compare to the optional IFC Import. Which is also slow

but not at that magnitude. The resulting VW files is only 233 MB from 500+ MB IFC.

 

This is strange as in Bricscad I get the opposite import results (in Minutes, not Hours)

and true round Cylinders versus VW generic Solids that look like polygonal Extrusions.

255 MB Revit results in 65 MB Bricscad DWG,

while

550+ MB IFC results in 1 TB Bricscad DWG.

 

(*)

Found a File Demo Slow enough (not hours but 20 minutes import),

although no rounding in Architecture, but a few furniture objects.

It was a latest Enscape Revit Office Demo.

I do not find the link again (was in an email newsletter ?)

I will send it via PM.

 

 

BTW,

please look at the translation of the Doors = VW Door with default dimensions

but a total Symbol inserted at first Level.

(Door will not recognize if you rename that Symbol)

If you open such a Door Symbol from Revit,

it contains a "Revit Object" Container (why !?),

that contains an "Add Solid",

that contains just loose 3D Faces.

(No wonder VW file sizes explode)

Edited by zoomer
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Since SP3 solved the major issues related to using my 3dconnexion spacemouse, I've been using my M1 mac mini with VW2021 with no major problems (other than things that are problems with VW rather than the M1). It's now my main machine.

 

The only real hardware irritation is to do with displays not waking up properly. This seems to be a fairly common issue. Perhaps it can be fixed in a future OS version, who knows.

 

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/252111852

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

The M1 Macs are just slightly faster than my Late-2013 Mac Pro (trash can), so I'm waiting until they release a 4 nm M2 Mac before I buy a new computer. Its good that my 7-year old Mac still runs great, but I'm looking forward to a Late-2021 iMac Pro or a Mid-2022 Mac Pro.

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Same here.

I can do on M1 basically all what I can do on my well specced PC,

beside CPU rendering. And that will become better when all my Apps

get at least 100% compatible with M1 and run without Rosetta penalty

and suspicious RAM usage. Even better when optimized and Metal.

 

But M1s are lowest specced of Apple Machines and for the future I

want something (much) beefier.

 

So for now, the new iMac is also M1 only, not even M1x or such.

But if I had the chance early that year, I would have gone with the iMac

instead of the Mini.

I think it is a great consumer device. And I would have a spare Monitor,

since my 30" Cinema Display's power supply died.

Also it is more suitable to to be passed on relatives when something

bigger is available.

Looks like my M1 Mini may even run for a whole year or at least until

WWDC before there comes anything more interesting.

(I would like to go for an iMac Pro, Midi Pro or even ARM Mac Pro)

 

And I hope it won't take too long until the new Keyboard with Touch ID

gets available for any M1 user, without buying a M1 iMac .....

(My USB Aluminium extended keyboard is dying and has a real hole

in the Shift key ....)

Edited by zoomer
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14 hours ago, line-weight said:

 

Is that from experience - have you seen it struggle with larger projects?

 

I'm doing just small to moderate size projects and it is coping well but there isn't a gee wow time improvement in rendering times.  

 

For bigger projects I think you are going to need a lot more cores than the current M1 chip has for there to be a substantial improvement in rendering times.

 

Caveat - this is Rosetta and I'm hoping that the M1 coded version of Vw will see an improvement in rendering times.

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8 hours ago, mike m oz said:

For bigger projects I think you are going to need a lot more cores than the current M1 chip has for there to be a substantial improvement in rendering times.

 

 

Checking piggy bank to see if I can afford a 32 Core Apple Silicon Mac Pro come September... okay probably not. But I am very curious to know how Vectorworks 2022 will perform on such a machine. Could it be the first time we don't have to wait for anything (assuming v2022 also has a lot of multi-threading improvements)?

Edited by Christiaan
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8 hours ago, mike m oz said:

 

I'm doing just small to moderate size projects and it is coping well but there isn't a gee wow time improvement in rendering times.  

 

For bigger projects I think you are going to need a lot more cores than the current M1 chip has for there to be a substantial improvement in rendering times.

 

Caveat - this is Rosetta and I'm hoping that the M1 coded version of Vw will see an improvement in rendering times.

 

As long as rendering in VW is CPU based it will always be slow. Same for C4D or any other 3D program. Fast rendering needs GPU cores, at this point you dont even get that for free in C4D. The one boost you can feel is openGL.

 

My M1 mac mini blows my mac pro 2013/6core/32GB out of the water in 3D movement of a complex scene with openGL+ambient occlusion.

 

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5 hours ago, Christiaan said:

 

Checking piggy bank to see if I can afford a 32 Core Apple Silicon Mac Pro come September... okay probably not. But I am very curious to know how Vectorworks 2022 will perform on such a machine. Could it be the first time we don't have to wait for anything (assuming v2022 also has a lot of multi-threading improvements)?


I doubt you’ll see a Mac Pro this year. My guess is that it’ll be unveiled at WWDC in 2022. We’ll probably see a MacBook Pro with 4 nm M2 processor late this year, and if we are lucky, an iMac Pro to go with it.

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On 4/22/2021 at 2:58 AM, fuberator said:

 

As long as rendering in VW is CPU based it will always be slow. Same for C4D or any other 3D program. Fast rendering needs GPU cores, at this point you dont even get that for free in C4D. The one boost you can feel is openGL.

 

My M1 mac mini blows my mac pro 2013/6core/32GB out of the water in 3D movement of a complex scene with openGL+ambient occlusion.

 

I’m considering the M1.. what sorts of projects have you been doing on yours? Any further comments on performance?

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5 hours ago, dtheory said:

I’m considering the M1.. what sorts of projects have you been doing on yours? Any further comments on performance?

 

Hi

 

I have not made any big stage drawings during the pandemic. Just smaller stuff. That has been no problem whatsoever so far.

The first thing I did when I got it it was to test some previously made music stage scenes with hundereds of fixtures, truss, stage elements, 3d figures and room geometry.

I have no lag rotating and navigating the scene in openGL with ambient occlusion on. The file opens quickly and plays nice.

 

If you want me to test a file for you can DM me.

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On 4/12/2021 at 7:48 PM, zoomer said:

and also for the slowest Revit importing Software on Earth.

 

I realized that a Revit Import is much faster when not using conversion

to VW Solids option but keeping Meshes instead.

(The resulting "Add Solids" from lose 3D Faces won't help anyway)

 

Nevertheless,

VW, even when importing as simple Meshes only,

is still the slowest Revit importing Software on Earth.

🙂

 

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