Nicolas Goutte Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 15 hours ago, zoomer said: AFAIK M1 USB C may be ready for TB4. Some said this is just a legal thing, although Apple developed TB with Intel. While USB 4 standard includes (free?) TB3. Sure, it is difficult to know what the M1 chip can or cannot do (as only Apple really knows it). And as far as I have understood, at least part of the hardware would be TB4-ready... but it is like with USB, the slowest link dictates the speed. Quote Link to comment
zoomer Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 Is it still the way that if I plug a single USB 2 device into a USB 3 Hub, that alle other devices will also get only USB 2 speed ? So necessary to sort your USB devices and use separate USB outputs for each USB Speed Hub ? (Which is basically what I still do) For example, when make use of the USB 3 Hub of my Wacom Cintiq and plug a USB 2 CADMouse in, external USB 3 SSD cases would also run USB 2 speed only at the Wacom Hub ? Quote Link to comment
Nicolas Goutte Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 27 minutes ago, zoomer said: Is it still the way that if I plug a single USB 2 device into a USB 3 Hub, that alle other devices will also get only USB 2 speed ? So necessary to sort your USB devices and use separate USB outputs for each USB Speed Hub ? (Which is basically what I still do) For example, when make use of the USB 3 Hub of my Wacom Cintiq and plug a USB 2 CADMouse in, external USB 3 SSD cases would also run USB 2 speed only at the Wacom Hub ? Not sure about that. (I think there is a special mode in USB 3 to avoid that... but I am far from being a USB specialist.) I meant more from CPU to device. No need of a USB 4 hub if your computer kann only do USB 3. Quote Link to comment
fuberator Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 Just a quick note. I just got a mac mini m1 with 16mb, installed vectorworks 2021, opened a stage design with a ton of geometry and light fixtures and took it for a whirl in open GL. Its a pleasure! The same file on my 6 core trashcan with 32mb felt really heavy in switching to open GL in a 3d and rotating around. but this little sardine can does not even flinch. And it cost under a grand. First time (in 30 years) I ever got a bargain feeling out of apple. Not going to get my hopes up quite yet, but so far this felt like a major upgrade. Who knows what rosetta bugs await. 3 Quote Link to comment
zoomer Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 Here the same, can open the largest Projects and work with them as good as on the PC. But importing 255 MB Revit File in VW 2021 took 16 hours on M1 Mini ! Although my fastest single core performance machine. (I thought something with Rosetta) Unfortunately I tried the same Revit import on my PC with Ryzen 3950X and 64 GB RAM. The 16 hours are long over and I think it will easily take 24 hours on my PC. Big LOL for Apples M1 speed, and also for the slowest Revit importing Software on Earth. 1 Quote Link to comment
Vectorworks, Inc Employee Vasil Kitanov Posted April 12, 2021 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Share Posted April 12, 2021 Hi @zoomer, Could you please, send me this Revit file, so that we can investigate the issue with slow Revit import Best regards, Vasko Quote Link to comment
Christiaan Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 We've budgeted for new iMacs. 1 Quote Link to comment
zoomer Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 (edited) 18 hours ago, Vasil Kitanov said: Hi @zoomer, Could you please, send me this Revit file, so that we can investigate the issue with slow Revit import Best regards, Vasko I would like to but unfortunately again under NDA. It was a Revit 2019 file. I don't think it is about that special file as a was used to that any real world project test file Revit import is something for overnight calculation. I think that is even for the Autodesk's site Revit Sample Files. Not many hours but feels too slow. I will search for another Revit File. (*) I have my assumptions though. The file contains a few cylindrical tanks and some furniture, also some rounding around Door Jambs. In VW, at least with 3D View and convert to VW Solids, these come fortunately in as Solids, but for rounded objects like Cylinders, tessellated though. Therefore (?) a resulting VW file size of 1TB from 255 MB Revit. Have to look more close and compare to the optional IFC Import. Which is also slow but not at that magnitude. The resulting VW files is only 233 MB from 500+ MB IFC. This is strange as in Bricscad I get the opposite import results (in Minutes, not Hours) and true round Cylinders versus VW generic Solids that look like polygonal Extrusions. 255 MB Revit results in 65 MB Bricscad DWG, while 550+ MB IFC results in 1 TB Bricscad DWG. (*) Found a File Demo Slow enough (not hours but 20 minutes import), although no rounding in Architecture, but a few furniture objects. It was a latest Enscape Revit Office Demo. I do not find the link again (was in an email newsletter ?) I will send it via PM. BTW, please look at the translation of the Doors = VW Door with default dimensions but a total Symbol inserted at first Level. (Door will not recognize if you rename that Symbol) If you open such a Door Symbol from Revit, it contains a "Revit Object" Container (why !?), that contains an "Add Solid", that contains just loose 3D Faces. (No wonder VW file sizes explode) Edited April 13, 2021 by zoomer Quote Link to comment
line-weight Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 Since SP3 solved the major issues related to using my 3dconnexion spacemouse, I've been using my M1 mac mini with VW2021 with no major problems (other than things that are problems with VW rather than the M1). It's now my main machine. The only real hardware irritation is to do with displays not waking up properly. This seems to be a fairly common issue. Perhaps it can be fixed in a future OS version, who knows. https://discussions.apple.com/thread/252111852 1 Quote Link to comment
Christiaan Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 Well I hope they release a bigger iMac by September. 3 Quote Link to comment
mike m oz Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 It needs to be more than a bigger monitor. If you want to future proof yourself it also needs to be a much better chip. The existing M1 chip is good, but you will need more grunt than it has for larger projects. Quote Link to comment
Christiaan Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 (edited) Yeah, agreed, I think that's a certainty given that they didn't release them on the same date. I kept waiting for 'and there's one more thing'. Edited April 21, 2021 by Christiaan 1 Quote Link to comment
line-weight Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 3 hours ago, mike m oz said: The existing M1 chip is good, but you will need more grunt than it has for larger projects. Is that from experience - have you seen it struggle with larger projects? Quote Link to comment
Sky Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 The M1 Macs are just slightly faster than my Late-2013 Mac Pro (trash can), so I'm waiting until they release a 4 nm M2 Mac before I buy a new computer. Its good that my 7-year old Mac still runs great, but I'm looking forward to a Late-2021 iMac Pro or a Mid-2022 Mac Pro. Quote Link to comment
zoomer Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 (edited) Same here. I can do on M1 basically all what I can do on my well specced PC, beside CPU rendering. And that will become better when all my Apps get at least 100% compatible with M1 and run without Rosetta penalty and suspicious RAM usage. Even better when optimized and Metal. But M1s are lowest specced of Apple Machines and for the future I want something (much) beefier. So for now, the new iMac is also M1 only, not even M1x or such. But if I had the chance early that year, I would have gone with the iMac instead of the Mini. I think it is a great consumer device. And I would have a spare Monitor, since my 30" Cinema Display's power supply died. Also it is more suitable to to be passed on relatives when something bigger is available. Looks like my M1 Mini may even run for a whole year or at least until WWDC before there comes anything more interesting. (I would like to go for an iMac Pro, Midi Pro or even ARM Mac Pro) And I hope it won't take too long until the new Keyboard with Touch ID gets available for any M1 user, without buying a M1 iMac ..... (My USB Aluminium extended keyboard is dying and has a real hole in the Shift key ....) Edited April 21, 2021 by zoomer Quote Link to comment
mike m oz Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 14 hours ago, line-weight said: Is that from experience - have you seen it struggle with larger projects? I'm doing just small to moderate size projects and it is coping well but there isn't a gee wow time improvement in rendering times. For bigger projects I think you are going to need a lot more cores than the current M1 chip has for there to be a substantial improvement in rendering times. Caveat - this is Rosetta and I'm hoping that the M1 coded version of Vw will see an improvement in rendering times. Quote Link to comment
Christiaan Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 (edited) 8 hours ago, mike m oz said: For bigger projects I think you are going to need a lot more cores than the current M1 chip has for there to be a substantial improvement in rendering times. Checking piggy bank to see if I can afford a 32 Core Apple Silicon Mac Pro come September... okay probably not. But I am very curious to know how Vectorworks 2022 will perform on such a machine. Could it be the first time we don't have to wait for anything (assuming v2022 also has a lot of multi-threading improvements)? Edited April 22, 2021 by Christiaan Quote Link to comment
fuberator Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 8 hours ago, mike m oz said: I'm doing just small to moderate size projects and it is coping well but there isn't a gee wow time improvement in rendering times. For bigger projects I think you are going to need a lot more cores than the current M1 chip has for there to be a substantial improvement in rendering times. Caveat - this is Rosetta and I'm hoping that the M1 coded version of Vw will see an improvement in rendering times. As long as rendering in VW is CPU based it will always be slow. Same for C4D or any other 3D program. Fast rendering needs GPU cores, at this point you dont even get that for free in C4D. The one boost you can feel is openGL. My M1 mac mini blows my mac pro 2013/6core/32GB out of the water in 3D movement of a complex scene with openGL+ambient occlusion. 1 Quote Link to comment
Sky Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 5 hours ago, Christiaan said: Checking piggy bank to see if I can afford a 32 Core Apple Silicon Mac Pro come September... okay probably not. But I am very curious to know how Vectorworks 2022 will perform on such a machine. Could it be the first time we don't have to wait for anything (assuming v2022 also has a lot of multi-threading improvements)? I doubt you’ll see a Mac Pro this year. My guess is that it’ll be unveiled at WWDC in 2022. We’ll probably see a MacBook Pro with 4 nm M2 processor late this year, and if we are lucky, an iMac Pro to go with it. 2 Quote Link to comment
dtheory Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 FWIW: Here is a geekbench comparison between my 2013 Mac Pro 6 core 64 GB RAM and an M1 Mac Mini: https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/compare/7591582?baseline=7586338 Quote Link to comment
dtheory Posted April 26, 2021 Share Posted April 26, 2021 On 4/22/2021 at 2:58 AM, fuberator said: As long as rendering in VW is CPU based it will always be slow. Same for C4D or any other 3D program. Fast rendering needs GPU cores, at this point you dont even get that for free in C4D. The one boost you can feel is openGL. My M1 mac mini blows my mac pro 2013/6core/32GB out of the water in 3D movement of a complex scene with openGL+ambient occlusion. I’m considering the M1.. what sorts of projects have you been doing on yours? Any further comments on performance? Quote Link to comment
fuberator Posted April 26, 2021 Share Posted April 26, 2021 5 hours ago, dtheory said: I’m considering the M1.. what sorts of projects have you been doing on yours? Any further comments on performance? Hi I have not made any big stage drawings during the pandemic. Just smaller stuff. That has been no problem whatsoever so far. The first thing I did when I got it it was to test some previously made music stage scenes with hundereds of fixtures, truss, stage elements, 3d figures and room geometry. I have no lag rotating and navigating the scene in openGL with ambient occlusion on. The file opens quickly and plays nice. If you want me to test a file for you can DM me. Quote Link to comment
zoomer Posted April 26, 2021 Share Posted April 26, 2021 On 4/12/2021 at 7:48 PM, zoomer said: and also for the slowest Revit importing Software on Earth. I realized that a Revit Import is much faster when not using conversion to VW Solids option but keeping Meshes instead. (The resulting "Add Solids" from lose 3D Faces won't help anyway) Nevertheless, VW, even when importing as simple Meshes only, is still the slowest Revit importing Software on Earth. 🙂 Quote Link to comment
line-weight Posted April 26, 2021 Share Posted April 26, 2021 What's a measure of a "big" project? My biggest has a VW file size around 1GB, but I think some of that is because it contains bitmap images. In any case I can view and navigate it all on my M1 mini in OpenGL without any noticeable problems. Quote Link to comment
dtheory Posted April 26, 2021 Share Posted April 26, 2021 Another question to the group: Anyone using dual monitor on the M1? Any thoughts? Quote Link to comment
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