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Nathaniel.C

New ID's on copy/mirror

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When duplicating a hoist or piece of truss it copies the ID and flags an error, can this be set to automatically create a new unique ID upon copy / duplication so as not to cause this every time.

 

Same with mirror tool if you want the same truss setup on the opposite side of a room why would you redraw the entire thing when you can just mirror?

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I can somewhat agree with this from an ease of use perspective, by default it would be good on copy (either flat copy, repetitive duplication, mirror copy or rotation copy) that things auto incremented however I can also see how the logic is derived from the predecessor of this, the Lighting Device.

 

When you mirror a lighting rig, although it would be a nicety for the unit numbers to perhaps auto increment, for the most part we actually want that data to remain the same - for example in key fill pairs, or floods/wash pairs. Unit 73 (or Channel 73 pending your theatrical preference in numbering and conventions) may actually be present in two or more locations along a bar for pairing purposes.

 

Although it does add additional steps to a workflow when dealing with hoisting the past, particularly on long truss runs with 10 hoists or more, I've just found myself using the Spotlight Numbering feature more, getting familiar with the shortcut key and punching out a line from Left to Right. It's not ideal but it certainly does the job.

 

Perhaps another alternative is the option to resolve Hoist Number conflicts as a menu item - it wouldn't be a large script at all to write!

 

I look forward to you pushing Braceworks further Nathaniel.

 

J

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Posted (edited)

As every hoist must have a unique ID for braceworks i don't see why it should duplicate. We use the "Hoist Label" to differentiate between hoists and for location identification. So the hoist number is purely for braceworks and should always generate a unique number.

 

A script sounds like a good temporary solution.

Edited by Nathaniel.C
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2 hours ago, Nathaniel.C said:

As every hoist must have a unique ID for braceworks i don't see why it should duplicate. We use the "Hoist Label" to differentiate between hoists and for location identification. So the hoist number is purely for braceworks and should always generate a unique number.

 

A script sounds like a good temporary solution.

 

100%. You'll actually notice in the Lighting Device world this is done through the name field being locked to an auto incrementing number generated as the lamp is placed its unique identifier is created (similar to a timestamp really) - no reason the same can't be applied here (or actually similar would be preferred as a lot of people would like the name field to be available for LOC based lookups...).

2045768516_LightingNameNumberingExample.thumb.PNG.a7a22fe0e67dafd3c7cb889cf443a8cd.PNG

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Braceworks - Reset Braceworks ID's should reset the unique ID for all rigging elements on the drawing. If this isn't working then I would recommend resetting/repairing your user folder. Unless it was a different field you were looking to change? FYI you can use Spotlight - Number Instruments to renumber Hoists.

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Posted (edited)

This hoist ID is the issue. Every time you duplicate a hoist the ID stays the same and flags in Braceworks and you have to go through and change them, this field doesn't accept letters thus we don't use it to identify Hoists and positioning and use Hoist Label instead. This field should just auto increase on duplication so as not to flag everytime.

hoist.png

Edited by Nathaniel.C

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Thanks for the screen grab, Have you tried Braceworks reset ID's then re-run the calculation (or do a system check).

 

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Identical result. 

 

I am aware you can use the spotlight numbering tool, but its yet another step to do to get rid of an error message.

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OK hard to tell if it is the ID or the Hoist number that is causing the issue, if it is the ID.....

 

Quit the application...

 

Locate a program called Vectorworks Updater and open.... Select 'Advanced Options' and click repair.

 

I know that the Braceworks team are aware of the hassle of re-numbering hoists. However when duplicating anything in Vectorworks you will get an identical clone. A script would be the ideal solution. 

 

You could create a marionette that would mirror the hoists and then run a renumbering script. I think it will always require a 2-step process.

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So after playing around Reset Braceworks ID's works for lighting fixtures with this, but not Hoists. As mentioned a script was written for the Hoist renumbering.

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@Nathaniel.C The reset Braceworks ID's command is designed to update the unique name/ID (UID) of a braceworks enabled object, not user defined hoist ID's or lighting device channel numbers. This is to ensure that each object is correctly defined as a unique load for the Braceworks calculations, as duplicating an object can also duplicate the objects UID.

 

Currently the only object types that automatically increment when duplicated (that I am aware of) are trusses and pipes. In both cases they have slightly different behavior when duplicated, a pipe will increment it's position id field and truss objects update the truss system field.

Both of these object types were individually engineered to do this because the various duplication commands and tools are not specific to Spotlight but part of the core Vectorworks CAD package.

 

We are planning to add automatic numbering to Hoists at insertion soon, but I am not sure if this will also affect duplicated hoists.

I will make a enhancement request to add automatic incrementing of hoist ID's when they are duplicated.

 

On a side note, the error message about Hoist ID's already being in use is a warning (yellow), not a danger (red) and will not prevent Braceworks correctly calculating the rigging system.

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Thanks for the update,

 

If Hoist ID is not a UID for braceworks then why does it flag as a "warning" when you run a calculation? Should it not just ignore it? If the UID was the same then i would expect this warning and "reset Braceworks ID" to function as it does with a lighting fixture.

 

If a lighting fixture has the same channel braceworks doesn't flag this, but when a lighting fixture flags this same error/UID restting braceworks ID's fixes it and the error no longer persists.

 

I understand it doesn't effect the calculation, but its such a frustration if you mirror an entire rig and when you run your calculation a million little yellow pop ups appear and errors in your calculation for a field that doesn't effect the calculation. As mentioned above we don't even use this field as it is an integer field and doesn't allow for alphabetical letters. (we use Hoist Label instead)

 

I like the sound of the auto numbering and look forward to this!

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Braceworks flags these as warnings because of how they will show on the calculation report. If there are duplicate IDs or missing IDs it's much more difficult to follow the structural report when you need to verify calculations or identify the loads and supports.

It's not a problem for calculations just a problem when it comes to reporting.

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