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Please go to the Apple web site and read, you'll not only find all the details of the machine but more importantly it will tell you when this model becomes available!

Unless somebody making these at Apple also moonlights using VW I think you'll find it impossible to answer your question at this time.

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Just to be clear. Apple has two pro lines of laptops. One is the venerable Powerbook. The other is the new and not released yet MacBook Pro.

The Powerbook is a G4 processor and should run VW12 just fine.

TheMacBook Pro will be an Intel processor. NNA says that it is committed to supporting VW12 on the new Intel Macs. That suggests that the current release of VW12 is not Intel native. It would therefore run on a MacBook Pro using the emulation program called Rosetta which I assume is now a part of OS10.4.4.

In theory, VW12 should run in emulation. The question is how emulation on a very fast new processor will affect the speed of VW12.

Of course NNA may release a native version of VW12 by the time that a MacBook Pro is available for purchase :-)

I have a 1ghz Powerbook. I love it. The new MacBook Pro looks even better. I suspect that I may very well own one before the end of this year.

[ 01-15-2006, 01:57 PM: Message edited by: Kevin ]

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Without a model to test on until they became common knowledge last week NNA of course can't give an answer, and can only now start to work on ensuring VW will run on the intel based production models Apples rolling out.

With the speed increase of the new hardware I'd hazard a guess under Rosetta emulation they will be at least as fast as the models they replace.

When you upgrade Vectorworks to VW12.5 the "Universl" version will only improve in speed terms on Macs with Intel processors.

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Is Rosetta a vehicle for non-supported software?

My short experience in an office using Mac's afforded me the horrible experience of using Auto-cad on "virtual PC" (it was slow) Does the Rosetta do the same thing.

Kevin:I may be misinformed butI thought the MacBook pro was actually ready to order and that was the one I meant.

I ordered a Dell m70 Precision, but can cancel if anyone offers more info.

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The MacBook Pro is ready to order, but as far as I know, you cannot walk out of an Apple store with one in hand. The Apple Web Store will give you all the info you need on that.

Yes, Rosetta is the transition software that will allow Power PC software to run on the Intel Core Duo. It is a bit soon to know how fast Rosetta is. Remember that Virtual PC is taking a MIcrosoft operating system and running it on an Apple OS. Rosetta is Apple software running Apple software on an Apple OS. I would expect Rosetta to run smoother than Virtual PC, (just my opinion).

According to Apple't testing, the new MacBook Pro is quite a bit faster. Take a look at the comparison between a Core Duo iMac and a G5 iMac. I agree with alanmac that the increased processor power will probably make up for the software conversion of Rosetta.

NNA has given a commitment to the Intel Mac. Public release of Apple's hardware was scheduled for around June 2006. I would expect that NNA is working to that schedule.

Also keep in mind that it will take you, the user, some time to learn Vectorworks. As a new user, you will probably not need a blazingly fast experience. By the time you are proficient in using VW, NNA will probably have released a native version of VW. So go a head and order that beautiful new MacBook Pro. (If you don't, I will!).

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Rosetta and Virtual PC do to very different things.

Virtual PC as it currently runs has to fully emulate a full windows enviroment, therefore doing a whole lot of work. Then translating that code on the fly to PPC code.

With Rosetta, the emulation only occurs where the application doesn't have an x86 Binary as part of the application package. All the system runs native, and part of the program that use standard system calls (typically the interface,disk usage) will run native.

So the amount of emulation required with vary from Appliaction.

I guess we need to see a running machine to tell how VW will go. There are already some new iMacs in the wild.

Applications running under Rosetta while still taking a bit of a performance hit should still be far less noticable than that of running under Virtual PC.

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Then perhaps NNA could provide a statement to clear this up. I understand where they cannot, (or will not), give an answer to when VW will be Universal Binary.

But surely NNA has already tested VW12 under Rosetta. They should at least be able to say that it does or does not work.

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quote:

Originally posted by Kevin:

Then perhaps NNA could provide a statement to clear this up. I understand where they cannot, (or will not), give an answer to when VW will be Universal Binary.

But surely NNA has already tested VW12 under Rosetta. They should at least be able to say that it does or does not work.

NNA made a statement about this in another thread.

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Hmm, Andrew's mesage is kinda disturbing in that I would asume he has the inside scoop at NNA. i would imagine that Apple would give out some pre release intel macs for beta testing to software mfgrs. Am I wrong here Andrew? Do you have a intel mac at NNA? I would think in the long run purchasing the intel mac would be ok since this seems to be the way of all macs in the future. Perhaps Rosetta would be more akin to "classic mode" when Mac OS went from 9 to 10. Things worked but they were a little clunky especially when it came to printing. We just have to be patient with this until the transition is over. Unfortunately for me I want to upgrade now, not only my laptop but also my desktop. So either I have to by old technolgy (not) or buy the intel mac and suffer what comes or wait till the dust settles on this transition. It would be nice though, to have NNA say that yes VWKS12 runs in rosetta mode abet slower or no, not until vwks 12 goes universal. Anymore inside tips Andrew?

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  • Vectorworks, Inc Employee

Our CEO -- who is an official spokesperson -- made this statement on the VectorWorks e-mail mailing list yesterday:

NNA will issue a press release with information about Rosetta compatibility with VectorWorks 12 as soon as we have it. We (along with all Mac developers) are waiting for our release Intel-Macs now to test with final customer hardware, I'm hesitant to use any results from our prototype machines and software. VectorWorks 11.5 will be more lightly tested but we suspect results will be similar. Our goal is to make sure that our current product line runs successfully, but not to spend time tweaking for Rosetta performance.

The universal binary development is making major headway and we've already made several trips to Apple to get through some difficult problems. Right now, it is still too early to make a schedule guess for the release because it is such a big job. I'm hoping we'll know a lot more in another month of development. Luckily, VectorWorks 12 made a lot of internal advances to use newer OS X systems which will make the job easier.

Sorry I can't offer any more details than that right now. Apple is very good at keeping secrets which makes for exciting announcements but also means that their developers will need a little time after the news to fill you in on the software details. As we hit major milestones of testing and planning I'll push to get the information published quickly.

Sincerely,

Sean

-----------------------------------------------

Sean Flaherty

CEO

Nemetschek North America

7150 Riverwood Drive

Columbia, MD 21046

Tel.: 410.290.5114

mailto:sean@nemetschek.net

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Kurt,

I would only point out that NNA obviously does extensive testing on their new releases, 12.0, 11.0. I don't know if you have used those versions, but since you have been on the board longer than I you know there are errors & bugs that aren't caught until after release, hence the x.1 x.5 releases.

If NNA does testing on 11.5 under Rosetta and doesn't find an error, which is probably a likelihood. They make a statement that it will run without a problem. After the Mactel machines start to saturate, someone finds a major incompatibility because of rosetta, what does NNA do? rewrite legacy software? offer free upgrades? It makes more business sense to neither confirm or deny compatibility, to provide warnings of untested hardware software combinations.

I live on the bleeding edge of technology for our company, but our production machines will stay with what is tried and true. If you live by your work, as most of us do, then get the pinnacle of current technology, and let those of us with a death wish struggle and fight with the transition hardware/software.

Best of luck, I don't envy your decision.

HTH

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Andrew:

Thanks for the heads up.

Ion:

I have had every version of vwks since mincad 3. I wonder if that would run in rosetta mode

no i don't want NNA wasting time on rewriting old softeware for intel macs. progress marches on

i have the death wish in me too

i'm going to jump off the cliff for a macbook pro in feb, hell or high water

i an't goin a wine too bad when it don't work perfectly although it would be nice to be a little productive and not too frustrating.

i know it'ill be ok and i will eventually land in a beautiful world of the best NNA and apple have to offer

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Kurt,

You sound like a man in my mold, or vice-versa. My plan is to get the 17" when it is released.

Having both made my living using computers and supporting others doing the same, I have seen too many people jump into the latest greatest without considering the possible consequences, and then complain when their bleeding edge hardware/software interrupted their livelihood.

Best of luck,

ion

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Kurt,

I look forward to hearing about your experience. I am more than likely going to be picking up a MB, but I'm going to wait until later in the year before I do it. I figure that VW12 (or 12.5) will have the bugs worked out and be optimized for the intel chip by that point.

If I had to buy right now, I'd probably go with the latest revision PB 15. It really is a decent machine, runs 11.5 wonderfully with 1GB of RAM. You know all of the current apps will work with it, and you will be current for at least 6 months. With the new MacBooks, I'm waiting on the revB, or even C, when the processor is truly unleashed and the other hardware components and applications are in sync.

One thing I wouldn't do is buy that Dell....

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Thanks to all of you for your fabulous, fascinating input. My new thriving, (hard to keep up with) business of design-build vacation homes has thrived on my switching to V'Works. I am gettin ghte Dell Precision built as I write this. It sounds like I wimped out but i was desperate. We have a laptop down and it was necessary, at least I do not have to deal with any incompatibility issues at one of our busiest time.

You made the Mac sound magical and perhaps Ill treat myself to one in a year or so.

Thanks again!

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I'm sure you won't be disapointed with your Dell even it does not carry the kudos of the MacBook Pro and by the time it comes to your next purchase the dust should have settled and the machines will have there native version programs for you to make a better comparison.

Of course this could work the other way for Apple.

One of the ways they've always justified their higher cost is by making the point that their hardware, processors were different and performed better than the "equivalent" machines running Windows.

Now with the processor coming from the same source any speed gain will have to be made through the architecture of the machines and how OSX works together with it.

If you can buy an identical spec Windows machine that runs your software as fast or even faster than Apples but costs considerable less then Apple really are going to have a hard time persuading users to switch.

I see that Sony for example has launched the FE series with machines equal in spec to Apples but at ?939.00+vat and ?1104+vat respectively compared to Apples price of ?1216+vat and ?1514+vat.

This will of course be of little consequence to the Powerbook user who's been waiting patiently for the long overdue update to the G4, but like I said will make the job of persuading the "switcher" harder to do so.

If, of course the reverse happens and the Apple outperforms the Windows based machines, Apples profits will go even higher than this quarters highest ever in their history result.

Alan

[ 01-21-2006, 04:20 PM: Message edited by: alanmac ]

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As a footnote to this post I see Katie replied to somebody in another thread saying VW10.5 was not signed off to work with Tiger.

So I guess anybody considering upgrading to a Intel Mac and at present running anything before Tiger with anything as old as VW10 is going to have to upgrade their copy of VW anyway.

Alan

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"And we also found that applications that aren?t yet Intel-native?which must run using Apple?s Rosetta code-translation technology?tend to run half as fast as the same applications running natively on the iMac G5."

Make sure you note this part if you plan on buying a mactel any time soon. Bleeding edge for sure.

Looks like an awesome iPhoto machine tho ;-)

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