fuberator Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 Hi I am freshly updated to latest Vision 2020 (25.0.3 SP3) on osx Catalina. Its currently impossible for me to use vision at the moment. Tried uninstalling and reinstalling. -The tools get selected (but not activated, just a selection box), but not deselected. If i click the tools one by one from top to bottom, they are all selected as opposed to the last one clicked. -its almost impossible to close a dialog (prefs, options, save). I can kind of get it closed if I hit escape several times or click ok several times, - The application prefs and vision prefs are now the same, I can no longer access the preferences for haze, normals, etc. Only the one with graphics, interactive and session. -NDI shows up in the video input select preview, but not on my surface. This might of course be some scale/offset settings and not an error, don't know yet. I guess it's catalina making problems, is this known to be true and if so is there an update coming? Cheers Quote Link to comment
Vectorworks, Inc Employee bbudzon Posted June 15, 2020 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Share Posted June 15, 2020 15 minutes ago, fuberator said: Its currently impossible for me to use vision at the moment. What was the last version of Vision that made it possible for you to use Vision? What are your system specs? 16 minutes ago, fuberator said: -The tools get selected (but not activated, just a selection box), but not deselected. If i click the tools one by one from top to bottom, they are all selected as opposed to the last one clicked. -its almost impossible to close a dialog (prefs, options, save). I can kind of get it closed if I hit escape several times or click ok several times, There has been a fairly long standing issue with Vision in that the UI slows down when the renderer slows down. In theory, opening smaller files or adjusting Document/Application settings should ease use. 17 minutes ago, fuberator said: - The application prefs and vision prefs are now the same, I can no longer access the preferences for haze, normals, etc. Only the one with graphics, interactive and session. Perhaps you're just having trouble locating the two different menu commands? One menu command (Vision Preferences) will spawn the Application Preferences dialog. Another menu command (Document Preferences) will spawn the Document Preferences dialog. 18 minutes ago, fuberator said: -NDI shows up in the video input select preview, but not on my surface. This might of course be some scale/offset settings and not an error, don't know yet. I guess it's catalina making problems, is this known to be true and if so is there an update coming? It's possible that catalina is causing some issues with NDI. It did cause us issues with UVC devices (ie; webcam). We'll work on trying to reproduce this in house and see what we come up with. Somewhat related to NDI... what license do you currently own for running Vision? And is this a serial number or a dongle? Quote Link to comment
fuberator Posted June 16, 2020 Author Share Posted June 16, 2020 (edited) 21 hours ago, bbudzon said: What was the last version of Vision that made it possible for you to use Vision? What are your system specs? I have a PC built for Vision and it works like a charm, but on my mac osx catalina — trashcan 6 core — d500 — 32gb, its always been less capable. Thats ok, its an old machine. However, at the moment I cant use it all because its bugging out. I think the last time I successfully used vision on mac was the 2019 version, which is of course also before i updated to catalina. Quote There has been a fairly long standing issue with Vision in that the UI slows down when the renderer slows down. In theory, opening smaller files or adjusting Document/Application settings should ease use. Thats ok, I don't expect to crank the settings on this machine. I just open MVR/ESC components to check them as I build them. I can only do some quick viewing with ctrl-middle mouse, after that I close the document because its pointless to try to do anything beyond that without fixing the basic functionality. I am adding a small screen recording of the tool selection phenomena. Quote Perhaps you're just having trouble locating the two different menu commands? One menu command (Vision Preferences) will spawn the Application Preferences dialog. Another menu command (Document Preferences) will spawn the Document Preferences dialog. It was definitely giving me the same prefs window on both separate menu commands. A wipe and reinstall of Vision fixed that particular mystery. Quote It's possible that catalina is causing some issues with NDI. It did cause us issues with UVC devices (ie; webcam). We'll work on trying to reproduce this in house and see what we come up with. Somewhat related to NDI... what license do you currently own for running Vision? And is this a serial number or a dongle? NDI is its own little beast, I should not have mentioned that in this context... ps. added the same recording twice by mistake, sorry Screen Recording 2020-06-16 at 13.52.32.mov Screen Recording 2020-06-16 at 13.52.32.mov Edited June 16, 2020 by fuberator 1 Quote Link to comment
Vectorworks, Inc Employee bbudzon Posted June 16, 2020 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Share Posted June 16, 2020 1 hour ago, fuberator said: I think the last time I successfully used vision on mac was the 2019 version, which is of course also before i updated to catalina. This is interesting! One of the big changes in 2020 that had a larger impact on performance than we realized was the new 4D Haze. What most don't know (and what isn't very well documented) is that you can disable 4D Haze by setting Haze Texture Intensity to 0%. This will drastically increase performance, in my experience, and therefore should "speed up" the UI. Can you confirm if you still experience these issues with Haze Texture Intensity set to 0%? What about when you are simply in a blank file? Do the tools activate properly then? Quote Link to comment
Vectorworks, Inc Employee bbudzon Posted June 16, 2020 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Share Posted June 16, 2020 1 hour ago, fuberator said: NDI is its own little beast, I should not have mentioned that in this context... No worries at all! Maybe once we get through some of this stuff we can discuss NDI in more detail (or possibly in a new thread). 1 hour ago, fuberator said: ps. added the same recording twice by mistake, sorry Not a problem at all. Thank you so much for uploading a video showing what it is you are seeing! Quote Link to comment
fuberator Posted June 16, 2020 Author Share Posted June 16, 2020 7 hours ago, bbudzon said: This is interesting! One of the big changes in 2020 that had a larger impact on performance than we realized was the new 4D Haze. What most don't know (and what isn't very well documented) is that you can disable 4D Haze by setting Haze Texture Intensity to 0%. This will drastically increase performance, in my experience, and therefore should "speed up" the UI. Can you confirm if you still experience these issues with Haze Texture Intensity set to 0%? What about when you are simply in a blank file? Do the tools activate properly then? I tried to open a new file, set the haze to low - still the same behaviour Quote Link to comment
Vectorworks, Inc Employee bbudzon Posted June 17, 2020 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Share Posted June 17, 2020 15 hours ago, fuberator said: still the same behaviour That is unfortunate... let's try gathering some more information. Can you launch Vision to an empty file, click into the Scene Graph Dock and press the 'o' key once. This will spawn an FPS counter. I'd like a screenshot of this. I believe if you press 'o' one more time, you will get even more detailed diagnostics. A screenshot of this as well would be nice. I'm just curious as to how well your machine is performing in an empty file as it should be pretty darn fast. If we can confirm that, perhaps the UI is "lagging" for some other reason? Quote Link to comment
fuberator Posted June 17, 2020 Author Share Posted June 17, 2020 Hi I tried both letter o and zero, none of them spawn a fps counter for me. Interestingly enough, the preference bug is back, I get the same window (the one without haze settings) in both menus. Made a recording... Screen Recording 2020-06-17 at 15.05.54.mov Quote Link to comment
Vectorworks, Inc Employee bbudzon Posted June 17, 2020 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Share Posted June 17, 2020 The FPS thing can be tricky but I just confirmed and it is definitely in the 2020 release: Furthermore, you're still getting the preference dialogs confused. Let me try to clarify. The following two menu commands on OSX are both application preferences: If you want access to the dialog for document preferences, you must click this menu command: Quote Link to comment
fuberator Posted June 17, 2020 Author Share Posted June 17, 2020 I understand now. Never noticed there were three preferences. A bit confusing with two already 🙂 Also I had not clicked in the scene graph, sorry. Now i get the fps. Empty document, nothing except chrome running: I do not have the tool selection bug on my laptop which is also running catalina. It must be specific to my system on that 6,1 machine. Vectorworks is also giving me grief on the same machine which I have detailed in another post Time for a wipe perhaps Quote Link to comment
Vectorworks, Inc Employee bbudzon Posted June 17, 2020 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Share Posted June 17, 2020 60 fps is pretty darn good and what I expected in a blank document. Odds are, VSync is capping you at 60fps (VSync is actually really good to leave on). The point being, 60fps is MORE than fast enough to avoid "blocking" the UI. So, it seems the issue you are having with tools is unrelated to renderer performance (because again, 60fps is more than enough to avoid lagging or blocking the UI). I haven't seen your VW post, mind linking it?? FWIW, I do not think this is specific to OSX Catalina which you've confirmed with your other machine. I'd hate to have you wipe it, but if other programs are giving you issues as well it may be necessary. Quote Link to comment
Vectorworks, Inc Employee bbudzon Posted June 17, 2020 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Share Posted June 17, 2020 Well, I hope we can start figuring this stuff out! Maybe between the issues you're seeing in VW and the issues you're seeing in Vision we can nail it down. Quote Link to comment
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