kduncan Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 Hello all. I hope everyone is staying safe. I have been trying to export from VWX to Depence2 via MVR and have run in to an issue with conventional fixtures. The fixtures in the VWX file are aimed at focus points, when I export the rotation information is not being imported so I have a rig that is all pointing straight down, I searched these forums and found only one other mention of the issue but regarding vision, I have tried the MVR in to vision and have the same issue and have also tried the "export to Vision" option where the focus points are taken and the export works as expected. I have tried re-importing the MVR to Vectorworks and the fixtures were all back to pointing straight down. Is this an issue with the Vectorworks export or a flaw with the MVR format and the mapping of the focus information for conventional fixtures? With this problem it does make the MVR format completely unusable, but with the lack of discussion on here about this perhaps I am doing something wrong. Any ideas? Thanks Keith Quote Link to comment
Vectorworks, Inc Employee TomWhiteLight Posted June 1, 2020 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Share Posted June 1, 2020 Hi Keith, Did this work before? does Depence2 utilise focus positions? Focus positions can also export via esc but not sure if depence2 can read that. It could be a Vectorworks thing but at the same time it might be worth posting the same message on the depence forum? Quote Link to comment
kduncan Posted June 1, 2020 Author Share Posted June 1, 2020 Hi Tom. Thanks for getting back to me. This is the first time we have tried it in to Depence2 we are evaluating It. Depence2 doesn't support focus points. So if MVR doesn't translate the Off Axis angle and the Vertical focus angle to actual fixture rotation angles then this probably won't work. Quote Link to comment
Vectorworks, Inc Employee TomWhiteLight Posted June 1, 2020 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Share Posted June 1, 2020 2 minutes ago, kduncan said: Depence2 doesn't support focus points. So if MVR doesn't translate the Off Axis angle and the Vertical focus angle to actual fixture rotation angles then this probably won't work. Have you looked at Vision yet? This is a good question, I do know that most of the users using Depence2 are largely using moving light rigs so this is less of an issue. I wouldn't have thought the fixture orientation to export correctly without the focus points but I know a colleague who can give us more of a definitive answer... @bbudzon do 'focused instruments' retain their orientation when exported via mvr without their focus points?' I think probably no but though I would check. Quote Link to comment
kduncan Posted June 1, 2020 Author Share Posted June 1, 2020 Hi, We are also evaluating Vision, we experienced the same issue with the focus points and MVR in Vision, but used the export to vision function and it worked. I don't believe that Depence2 accepts ESC files, my colleague is going to check. Quote Link to comment
Vectorworks, Inc Employee TomWhiteLight Posted June 1, 2020 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Share Posted June 1, 2020 That would work, MVR will carry focus points to vision there is a temporary regression issue I believe, Fix for this very soon. 1 Quote Link to comment
Vectorworks, Inc Employee bbudzon Posted June 1, 2020 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Share Posted June 1, 2020 On 5/30/2020 at 3:07 AM, kduncan said: The fixtures in the VWX file are aimed at focus points, when I export the rotation information is not being imported so I have a rig that is all pointing straight down There are some things I'm going to talk about. So, I want to make sure we're all on the same page and using terminology that we can all understand 😛 In my eyes, rotation information and focus information are two different things. - Rotation information would be something like hung vs floor mounted. Similarly, if a truss was at a 45deg angle, the fixture would need to be rotated to be mounted properly. - Focus information would be something like pan/tilt angles of the fixture. It could also be an X, Y, Z position in the scene. So, in this instance, it seems like the rotational information is correct but the focus information is not. On 5/30/2020 at 3:07 AM, kduncan said: and have also tried the "export to Vision" option where the focus points are taken and the export works as expected The "Send to Vision" menu command uses the proprietary ESC file format. While this file format does take focus points into account, so should MVR. I just ran some tests and it seems like there was a regression introduced between Vision 2020 SP2 and Vision 2020 SP3. If you do not need the features/bug fixes in SP3, you may consider falling back. On 5/30/2020 at 3:07 AM, kduncan said: I have tried re-importing the MVR to Vectorworks and the fixtures were all back to pointing straight down. This scenario isn't quite tested as often as you're usually going out of VW into some other program (not back into VW). That being said, I would consider this a bug and can pass the information along. On 5/30/2020 at 3:07 AM, kduncan said: Is this an issue with the Vectorworks export or a flaw with the MVR format and the mapping of the focus information for conventional fixtures? This does not appear to be an issue with VW export of MVR. I confirmed this by opening an MVR with focus points in Vision 2020 SP2. The fact that you are having issues with Vision 2020 SP3 and issues reading an MVR back into VW are both bugs/regressions. This is not a flaw in the MVR file format as it does take focus into account. On 5/30/2020 at 3:07 AM, kduncan said: I have been trying to export from VWX to Depence2 via MVR and have run in to an issue with conventional fixtures. This is most likely because Depence2 has not yet implemented the parsing of focus point data out of MVR. Focus points in MVR are associated to fixtures via a UUID. The focus point contains an X, Y, Z position that the associated fixture should "focus at". On 5/30/2020 at 3:07 AM, kduncan said: With this problem it does make the MVR format completely unusable You can contact Depence2 and see if they are willing to implement Focus Points and how long that might take to ship to the end user. You can also use Vision 2020 SP2. We will be shipping a fix for Focus Points in MVR with Vision hopefully sooner than later. On 5/30/2020 at 3:07 AM, kduncan said: I hope everyone is staying safe. 🙂 Thanks, you too!! 🙂 1 Quote Link to comment
Vectorworks, Inc Employee bbudzon Posted June 1, 2020 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Share Posted June 1, 2020 1 hour ago, kduncan said: I don't believe that Depence2 accepts ESC files ESC is a proprietary Vision file format. It is highly unlikely that they could read this file format as it requires other proprietary backend data to read properly (primarily, fixture content/resources). 1 hour ago, kduncan said: we experienced the same issue with the focus points and MVR in Vision, but used the export to vision function and it worked. My apologies! Somehow this regression seemed to have gone "un-caught". As I stated above, you may consider falling back to Vision 2020 SP2 where the reading of Focus Point information out of MVR seemed to be working (at least in my tests). We will work hard to ship a fix for this as soon as possible. 1 Quote Link to comment
kduncan Posted June 1, 2020 Author Share Posted June 1, 2020 Thank you very much for the comprehensive reply. That answers my questions. I wasn't sure if MVR used focus point data for the focus of conventional instruments or it interpreted the focus orientation of the fixtures. I was just trying to fault find with the MVR import to Vectorworks, trying to eliminate all the angles before asking on here. Thanks again. Keith 1 Quote Link to comment
Vectorworks, Inc Employee bbudzon Posted June 1, 2020 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Share Posted June 1, 2020 Just now, kduncan said: Thank you very much for the comprehensive reply. That answers my questions. Ofc, anytime! 1 minute ago, kduncan said: I was just trying to fault find with the MVR import to Vectorworks, trying to eliminate all the angles before asking on here. No worries! I'm going through our bug reporting system now trying to see if this has potentially already been reported/fixed. If not, we'll get this in the hands of the right developer and hopefully have a fix soon! 1 Quote Link to comment
Vectorworks, Inc Employee bbudzon Posted June 1, 2020 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Share Posted June 1, 2020 Just realized one last thing I didn't mention... Falling back to Vision 2020 SP2 isn't completely necessary to "get this to work". Although, this is probably the easiest "workflow". An alternative would be to export all conventional fixtures via ESC and export all other information via MVR (such as meshes/geometry/moving heads). I would recommend when using this workflow that you always open the MVR first and merge in the ESC. This will result in better "document settings" (primarily, Use Normals will be enabled). Quote Link to comment
kduncan Posted June 1, 2020 Author Share Posted June 1, 2020 1 hour ago, bbudzon said: Just realized one last thing I didn't mention... Falling back to Vision 2020 SP2 isn't completely necessary to "get this to work". Although, this is probably the easiest "workflow". An alternative would be to export all conventional fixtures via ESC and export all other information via MVR (such as meshes/geometry/moving heads). I would recommend when using this workflow that you always open the MVR first and merge in the ESC. This will result in better "document settings" (primarily, Use Normals will be enabled). Thanks. On this occasion my rig is entirely conventional, but good to know. Quote Link to comment
Vectorworks, Inc Employee bbudzon Posted June 1, 2020 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Share Posted June 1, 2020 1 minute ago, kduncan said: On this occasion my rig is entirely conventional, but good to know. Even in this occasion, the meshes/geometry will be of a higher quality when using MVR for "meshes only". Doing this "split MVR/ESC" workflow is far from ideal. So, I understand that in this occasion you may use entirely ESC. Just wanted you to be aware that exporting everything but conventionals in MVR to Vision and merging in conventials via ESC results in the best renderings (until we fix this bug then MVR will be the preferred workflow 😛). Here is a link to a post I made a while ago that showcases the improved renderings in regards to meshes in MVR: Quote Link to comment
DBLD Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 I am having issues with conventionals and focus positions in version 2021. Is the solution to export everything as MVR and export conventionals as ESC? Thanks Quote Link to comment
Vectorworks, Inc Employee TomWhiteLight Posted March 22, 2021 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Share Posted March 22, 2021 That would definitely work, We will investigate that issue as it should go across in the MVR. Quote Link to comment
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