Rotating a Hybrid Object (Projector)?

[trashcan]

I'm trying to rotate an Epson projector symbol but every time I do I get the warning "Hybrid objects can only be rotated in a plane parallel to the active layer place. Would you like the working plane set to the active layer plane?" I click "Yes" and then still can't rotate it. 

 

If I try to rotate in rotate 3D I get "Hybrid object can only be rotated about the Z axis". 

 

If I delete the 2D symbol, making it no-longer a hybrid object, then it works as I'd like it to, but I lose the 2D symbol. 

 

Obviously, would like to keep the 2D symbol, but can always render hidden line to achieve a compromise. 

 

Any ideas here? 

 

Edited May 6, 2020 by trashcan

[markdd]

Plain and simple - Hybrid 2D/3D symbols will not rotate as you want, so what you have done is probably the right thing to do.

 

If you want to rotate the symbol and then achieve a 2D projection of it, then the AutoHybrid command is a good route to go down. Otherwise you are going to be left with using a seperate 2D symbol that will need to be overlaid over your Rotated 3D Symbol.

 

You could make the projector into a lighting instrument symbol and convert it to a lighting device. The Ligting device object will move the 3D independently of the 2D leaving the 2D component in place.

 

It would be interesting to hear of any other workflows that others may have.

Edited May 6, 2020 by markdd

[trashcan]

@markdd as soon as I run the AutoHybrid command in the symbol I get the following error:

 

"Auto Hybrid creation succeeded, unsupported objects were excluded. The create Auto Hybrid command works exclusively on unlocked 3D-Only objects"

 

Is there a way to find out what objects are locked or not 3D?

 

 

[markdd]

Try it by selecting the symbol after it is rotated. It won’t work the way you want within a symbol edit window.
 

Just tried it here on a 3D symbol rotated at an angle and it worked fine. (The symbol is rotated and not the contents of the symbol.)

 

 

Edited May 7, 2020 by markdd

[trashcan]

For my purposes it's better to leave the projectors as projectors for now. So you do it TO the symbol, not within the symbol. And it only really makes sense to do it when you've got your final positioning. Otherwise you can't rotate it again. Correct? 

 

What's the best method if I Auto Hybrid the symbol and then need to rotate it again? (How do I un-Hybrid the symbol)

[markdd]

Double-click the auto hybrid to access the 3D symbol. Rotate the symbol as you require and exit the AutoHybrid edit window. 
 

The 2d geometry will regenerate to reflect the change of angle.

[trashcan]

@markdd awesome, solved. 👍

[Daniel Dickman]

On 5/6/2020 at 3:51 PM, markdd said:

You could make the projector into a lighting instrument symbol and convert it to a lighting device. The Ligting device object will move the 3D independently of the 2D leaving the 2D component in place.

 

Hey Mark,

 

How do you do this? I'm currently working on a file with all my lighting fixtures in 3D. But for the 2D instances of the hybrid symbols, I'm trying to find a way where I can move them at bit to clean up some overlaps, but don't want to mess with the 3D positioning. 

Currently when I move the lighting device in 2D plan, it is also moving the 3D. (and vice versa)

[markdd]

Hi

 

It's quite a convoluted process and you will need to probably make the projector geometry a "body" part of the symbol. It's all detailed here in the Vectorworks help files.

 

https://app-help.vectorworks.net/2020/eng/VW2020_Guide/LightingDesign1/Creating_a_lighting_instrument_symbol.htm

 

Once you have gone through these come back with any questions

 

Mark

[fuberator]

On 5/6/2020 at 8:51 PM, trashcan said:

I'm trying to rotate an Epson projector symbol but every time I do I get the warning "Hybrid objects can only be rotated in a plane parallel to the active layer place. Would you like the working plane set to the active layer plane?" I click "Yes" and then still can't rotate it. 

 

If I try to rotate in rotate 3D I get "Hybrid object can only be rotated about the Z axis". 

 

If I delete the 2D symbol, making it no-longer a hybrid object, then it works as I'd like it to, but I lose the 2D symbol. 

 

Obviously, would like to keep the 2D symbol, but can always render hidden line to achieve a compromise. 

 

Any ideas here? 

 

Hi

 

You might not need to destroy the symbol. There are three values you can modify, tilt of the screen, tilt of the projector and the vertical position set to specific shift.

 

By massaging these three values you should be able to hang at any angle including "projecting on the floor"

 

Hope that helps

 

[trashcan]

@fuberator sup man good to see you on here 👋. 

 

I'm not using the projector screen tool so don't have the tilt options. I'm using projector symbols and then manually drawing out the projector cones using good old frustums. Most of my projections surfaces aren't flat planes so I kind of need to do that (unless you have a workflow recommendation!). 

[fuberator]

44 minutes ago, trashcan said:

@fuberator sup man good to see you on here 👋. 

 

I'm not using the projector screen tool so don't have the tilt options. I'm using projector symbols and then manually drawing out the projector cones using good old frustums. Most of my projections surfaces aren't flat planes so I kind of need to do that (unless you have a workflow recommendation!). 

 

hi, cam?

[Amanda McDermott]

I'm having a similar issue - Struggling with tilting a model I've created, getting "Hybrid objects can only be rotated in a plane parallel to the active layer place. Would you like the working plane set to the active layer plane?" I've created it on the flat for ease and now want to tilt the whole thing, which includes hardscape objects, which I think is the issue. Haven't got a site model as it's a theoretical thing, but I want it to appear to be on a slope. Is it possible to just grab it all and tilt it?

[Amanda McDermott]

I've now set up a fake site model, which works for getting the hardscape and landscape areas to align, but my other objects (generally auto-hybrids) will move to whatever level but won't tilt...

 

[Amanda McDermott]

Answers FYI from super efficient @Katarina Ollikainen, thank you.

 

"If you want to rotate it, you must do it before you create a hybrid object of it. Because of the 2D component it’s not possible to rotate in anything else than Top plan.

If the hybrid is already created, go into the 3D part of it, copy the 3D object and paste it outside the symbol. Then you’re back to a normal 3D object.

 

If it’s a hardscape you can ungroup it. That way you can get out of the hybrid situation. However, you then lose the parametric abilities."

 

(Frustrating but good to understand! Perhaps it could go on the wish list to be able to rotate hardscapes / rotate after creating auto-hybrid, please, I can see it cropping up again?

 

For now, I think I can drape the hardscapes on my fake site model, and I’ll have to un-autohybrid the other things, rotate, and re-autohybrid…)

 

 

[Scott Lebsack]

@Amanda McDermott unless I'm missing something, using the Hardscape Tool (or creating Hardscapes from shapes) should not require a hybrid object? Hardscapes automatically have a 2D and a 3D representation. If you're doing simple extrudes or some other form of 3D for your "Hardscapes" this will not be the case...

[Tom W.]

I think @Amanda McDermott has created horizontal Hardscapes + then wanted to slope them by rotating them, which you can't do because they are hybrid objects. You can obviously slope the Hardscape several different ways within the tool settings but this won't rotate the objects as such as the edges remain vertical which I assume she wants to avoid...? I think the answer would be to use a Site Model: even if it's a 'theoretical thing' you can create a flat site model using Site Model From Boundary command then grade it manually + use the Hardscape tool as it's designed to be used. 

[Amanda McDermott]

Yes, I had both 'hardscapes proper' and also autohybrids of other bits and pieces like bespoke kerbs. I through I could just model on the flat because it seemed easier, and then rotate the whole thing, but turned out both the hardscapes and the autohybrids didn't like that!