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Hardscape Improvements

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Posted (edited)

The Hardscape is continuing to get attention - it's becoming quite a powerful object especially now with the new-in-2020 Aligned Slab (modifier none/op/bottom)

I've been adapting it to use as a roadway and it looks very promising

 

However I've had several instances recently while using it where I've asked Why oh Why?

I'm sure others have had similar moments.

 

Here are a couple:

  • Surface Modifers but the Slab's not visible
    • Right Click>Edit Surface Modifiers - and the slab disappears, you've no idea where it is and start zooming out and panning urgently to find it. I can't imagine a single instance when you would want to not see the slab. Ok perhaps Show Other Objects When in Edit Modes was not turned on - turn it on - you still cant see it. VW has helpfully registered the 2d Polygon at its origin and that's where you need to draw your Surface Modifers but you are still viewing at the site of interest many social distances away.
  • Main Slab Style
    • Create a new Hardscape from a Polyline. You cannot set or preset the Main Slab Style from the Properties, you need to first create it and then assign a Slab Style afterwards in the OIP.  However you can produce multiple Hardscapes at once by selecting several Polylines and you can set the Slab Styles to them all at once too. So that's a +
  • Polylines / Nurbs Curves
    • Hardscape objects need 2d Polygoins to define them. Curbs can be nicely draw with a Polyline in Plan but Extruding a profile Polygon along it converts it to a Nurbs curve. Now they cannot talk to each other like they need to.
  • Align to EAPs
    • As far as I know it's not possible for Hardscapes to align to EAPs. If they could it would be dandy to draw an curving, rising falling curb draw a Hardscape beneath  it. Have the curb clip the Hardscape and the Hardscape align to the curb.
  • Crowning
    • Building on an earlier thread. There has to be an easy, semi-automatic way to use a Hardscape for a roadway, defining the crown profile for a  roadway of varying widths.
  • There are now so many (9) 3d styles I could see this being radically integrated to 2; none & 3d

 

too much?

Edited by bcd
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Posted (edited)

I did.

The 6 road tools do not combine to produce a realistic & satisfactory result.

Consider a development with multiple houses at varying elevations and driveways. How can the Road tools achieve a result that, even if not surveyor accurate is even passable in a rendering?

 

eg

I'm not seeing any ability to create a crown, anywhere.

All the road items produce essentially Planar objects with thickness

The curbs are totally unrealistic

The Road Tee offers just a single radius with no control over the radius center

There is no way (that I can see) to produce flared widths

etc. etc.

 

These items are not at all uncommon in anything but the most basic CAD-driven housing developments.

VW should really make drawing roadways intuitive elegant and powerful to catch up to reality.

 

One such workflow could be:

Draw the center line - of the road network

Define the curves at the intersections

Define/confirm the left & right offsets (set to be equal but adjustable with a handle)

Define/confirm the cross-section at the station points

Define spot heights -

Set alignment/rise etc

Choose the curb profile from a library or add a custom profile

Define dropped curb locations & parameters

Set Site Modifier, Grade limits option

done

 

Edited by bcd
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Here's what I'm wrestling with. It's not at all uncommon and should be something VW could handle with aplomb.

image.thumb.png.290f13480a95db8739dde05e98def80d.png

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Totally agree.

 

Also the naming convention used by VW needs to be thrown out and started again.

 

Roads are not simply 5.5m wide with a 2m wide footpath.  There are multiple variations, even to the most basic of housing layout. I've got to the stage where I can produce a site layout which I can generate a very good looking site plan, but it is like going back 20 years in the functionality.

 

Example:

 

Houses: I am currently looking at a 22 unit housing development -  4 house styles. each of them fully modelled (no mean feat with the current limitations of the current roof tools).  problem now occurs when trying to reference in the model file to the site file. There is an error message that says the roof is too complex and cannot generate? I am only presuming that this is something to do with VW and the ever present flaw with origins.  

 

Road pattern - not overly complex and as a matter of fact, extremely simple, but Vectorworks cannot come close to creating roads that resemble anything close to the intended design. I am unable to incorporate proper site features like occasional swales (pretty much mandated by Sewers for Scotland) as well as a detention basin), build outs / traffic calming, novel junctions and minor access links.  This is just the primary roads infrastructure - the private driveways cannot be created.

 

The only solution that I have been able to come up with (and works) is to assume that the site is 100% flat and create the roads / paths / features etc. using  extrudes. What this does is give the impression of a development, but has no relation to what is actually on the ground. Also only works when the referencing of the house blocks works, which in this sites case - it does not.

 

Come on VW, devote some of that product development time to allow us to model a sites using simple geometry.  The tools which you have produced for roads are I'm sorry to say not fit for purpose (any of them).

 

This is the development I am looking at and there is a lot of topography which needs to be taken account of, but has to be done 100% manually by the use of 2D drawings as VW is simply not up to the job.  This is a small development for my practice and I though that I would try once again to see if VW had improved its site tools - unfortunately, although there is the new hardscape tool, which is good. It is not designed for this.TIT-20-02-Type 01-A.pdf

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May I ask a related question? I watched the tutorial for hardscape alignment. It is labeled as being for both Architecture and Landmark issues of VW. 
But I cannot, for the life of me find the alignment tool, either in VW 2019 nor 2020. The option in the top menu bar simply aren't there. Is this only for Landmark after all? 
Thanks,

Meret

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Alignment isn't a tool - it refers to the type of Slab the Hardscape is using. If you create a Hardscape and set the 3d Slab to one of the Aligned modes then, if you have geometry in your model that in Top/Plan is colinear or cocurvular (I know it's not a real word- help me out with the correct one please)  with an edge of the slab the slab/hardscape will facet or buckle to align to it.

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i like cocuvular!  

maybe correct concept is plan projection coincident?

or parallel on z axis?

 

i have seen the aligned slabs render with spikes around the perimeter which i think might be artifacts or errors from slight differences or gaps between the plan projections of the slab edge and the 3d align geometry. you would need massive zoom to see it. 

eg if a curve on edge of slab is traced or extracted or converted to 3d poly and then raised or lowered in z for use as alignment geometry. the extracted/converted object might have facets or other slight differences. close enough for the align process to proceed but with errors or confusions. 

 

but thats just a guess. 

 

-B

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