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3D Triangulated structure - Using Symbols?


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image.thumb.png.36f0023249e71c13baab47d0d8c0e90a.png

 

Hi All,

 

I'm a reasonably experienced Vectorworks user but have finally met my match with a client request.

 

I'm looking to make a a structure similar to the attached image that is created from an equilateral triangle (Of approx 150mm (L) x 10mm Thickness) that will also be a symbol. -  (Giving me the flexibility to affect it's aesthetic properties only, and best case scenario, if i could affect the symbol size and have all the elements in the mesh react and reposition accordingly)

 

My knowledge of Solidworks is that i would create this using mated parts and the physical limitations of the 3D asset i create (in this case the triangle symbol) would allow me to push and pull the structure at will. Is this something that is achievable within Vectorworks?

 

I look forward to hearing from you guys

 

Many Thanks,

Ry

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I think the idea of "mated parts" in Solidworks would be something likely to be called "3D Contraints" that have not yet been implemented in Vectorworks 2020. I am still holding my breath.

 

I think that trying to do this with symbols in VW is going to be very painful. Especially if your "push/pull" would result in things that change the size of the symbols.

 

A mesh object is probably the closest you are going to get to something that you can move a vertex and have the associated polys adjust.

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11 hours ago, Pat Stanford said:

I think the idea of "mated parts" in Solidworks would be something likely to be called "3D Contraints" that have not yet been implemented in Vectorworks 2020. I am still holding my breath.

 

I think that trying to do this with symbols in VW is going to be very painful. Especially if your "push/pull" would result in things that change the size of the symbols.

 

A mesh object is probably the closest you are going to get to something that you can move a vertex and have the associated polys adjust.

 

Ah yes, yeah 3D constraints would be a very welcome addition to Vectorworks especially for more industrial design related pieces.

 

I don't need to the Symbol properties to change automatically, only the mesh/ nurbs surface they are related too. With regards to a mesh object, can you define the mesh size/ properties?

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Yes, you can define the mesh starting point. Make a flat surface from 3DPolygons with coincident edges. I actually just drew a triangle and then mirrored/duplicated it. I repeated this until I had a surface with the number of faces I wanted. Converted to 3DPolygons, Ungrouped and Converted to Mesh.

 

You can then Edit Group to enter the mesh and Marquee select and drag or move points to where you want them to be.

 

Not the best interface, but possibly doable. The faces will change shape when you drag the vertices.

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46 minutes ago, Pat Stanford said:

Yes, you can define the mesh starting point. Make a flat surface from 3DPolygons with coincident edges. I actually just drew a triangle and then mirrored/duplicated it. I repeated this until I had a surface with the number of faces I wanted. Converted to 3DPolygons, Ungrouped and Converted to Mesh.

 

You can then Edit Group to enter the mesh and Marquee select and drag or move points to where you want them to be.

 

Not the best interface, but possibly doable. The faces will change shape when you drag the vertices.

 

Okay awesome, that makes sense.

 

Unfortunately what i'm trying to achieve is the triangulation of an organic archway structure. I have a different example (see attached) that is closer to what i'm after. This appears to have been created using the Grasshopper plug-in for Rhino, leading me to believe this may be achievable using Marionette?

 

image.thumb.png.65dc524ca09719bdd7b46563a5e379e8.png

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@Pat Stanford, @roverton18

I don't think it is so simple as it looks like. This kind of things are on my personal list of "things able to do in Rhino/Grasshopper/Kangaroo/ but not so easy in Marionette". :)

 

roverton18 wants to convert any surface into triangular one built from equilateral triangles. Mesh converts surface into any triangles that fits - surface may be built from set of different triangles.

So a challenge is not to convert surface into mesh/triangle surface, but to rebuild a surface using base shape (in this case fixed, equilateral triangle). And I have no idea how to do this in Marionette, yet :)

But I can give it a try now. I'll do some research and share, if I find any solution.

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22 minutes ago, GRZEGORZ said:

@Pat Stanford, @roverton18

I don't think it is so simple as it looks like. This kind of things are on my personal list of "things able to do in Rhino/Grasshopper/Kangaroo/ but not so easy in Marionette". 🙂

 

roverton18 wants to convert any surface into triangular one built from equilateral triangles. Mesh converts surface into any triangles that fits - surface may be built from set of different triangles.

So a challenge is not to convert surface into mesh/triangle surface, but to rebuild a surface using base shape (in this case fixed, equilateral triangle). And I have no idea how to do this in Marionette, yet 🙂

But I can give it a try now. I'll do some research and share, if I find any solution.

 

Hey Grzegorz!

 

After abit more research on my part this is exactly what i'm after. It seems similar things i have explored were created using Grasshopper/ Kangaroo which is beyond my knowledge of marionette tools in Vectorworks. 

 

I'd appreciate anything you discover and look forward to seeing what you come up with.

 

Thanks!

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1 hour ago, GRZEGORZ said:

Hi. After some research I found something like this.

The node that @Marissa Farrell wrote, works on a grid of points in 2D. Maybe she will be able to help. Tried this node on 3D surface, but it does not work. Still working on it.

 

That is awesome and is exactly the avenue i'm trying to explore! Thanks for finding, will definitely be useful to explain the concept in 2D views 

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Something to be careful about is the real world material thickness. A virtual/planar triangle can fit to all its neighbor instances without displacing them. If thickness is added , then every joint pushes away the remaining array. The push distance varies depending on 3d angle at each joint.

 

Creating triangular solids with fully rounded, half cylinder edges would help, and calculate array via the center axis of the cylinder.  But, again, if trying to reposition sections of the array,  the contact line/position at each joint would need to adjust/roll depending on the new angle.

 

But I think this can be done. I might give it a whirl later. 
 

-B

Edited by Benson Shaw
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Hey All,

 

Thanks for looking into this, I really appreciate the effort!

 

Thanks for sharing that example Marissa, it is definitely the right avenue however without using Delaunay triangulation i'll need to specify a Real dimension for the Equilateral triangle used in the mesh, and instead of a 2D polygon i'll need to use a Nurbs surface like in Grzegorz' example.

 

I've attached a quick .pdf to this comment that illustrates the 3D representation of the tile i'll be using (And i'll be figuring out construction methods etc once i've succeeded with this task!) - This is also with consideration to Benson's point, that the tiles will be connected along the longest vertices with a chamfered front face to allow the mesh/curtain/sheet to fold inwards also.

 

Hope all this makes sense! 

EquilateralTileConcept.pdf

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@roverton18 That all makes sense.  I guess this means that folding along any edge will not exceed the chamfer.  Or, perhaps the envisioned folds are always away from the chamfer.

 

Parametric constraints would be very helpful for this.  But the vwx parametric constraints only apply to 2d objects, walls and symbols containing 2d components (and only if the 2d components remain on the layer plane).  I'm making a wish for 3d constraints.

 

-B

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Hi all,

 

Thanks for all your help on this project, I submitted that Vectorworks couldn't help me with this task and produced the model in Solidworks, afterwards then exporting back to Vectorworks as a Parasolid so i could continue the rest of my exploration.

 

Subsequently after a quoting negotiation i'm exploring a simpler shape (a single vertical wall rather than an arched tunnel) and i'm hoping to achieve this in Vectorworks with some clever Surface Array modelling, i will let you know how i get on!

 

Thanks Again

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