RyanMartinDesign Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 Hi All, I'm a reasonably experienced Vectorworks user but have finally met my match with a client request. I'm looking to make a a structure similar to the attached image that is created from an equilateral triangle (Of approx 150mm (L) x 10mm Thickness) that will also be a symbol. - (Giving me the flexibility to affect it's aesthetic properties only, and best case scenario, if i could affect the symbol size and have all the elements in the mesh react and reposition accordingly) My knowledge of Solidworks is that i would create this using mated parts and the physical limitations of the 3D asset i create (in this case the triangle symbol) would allow me to push and pull the structure at will. Is this something that is achievable within Vectorworks? I look forward to hearing from you guys Many Thanks, Ry Quote Link to comment
zoomer Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 Other options worth looking into would be : - Create Surface Array or even - Digital Terrain Model Quote Link to comment
Pat Stanford Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 I think the idea of "mated parts" in Solidworks would be something likely to be called "3D Contraints" that have not yet been implemented in Vectorworks 2020. I am still holding my breath. I think that trying to do this with symbols in VW is going to be very painful. Especially if your "push/pull" would result in things that change the size of the symbols. A mesh object is probably the closest you are going to get to something that you can move a vertex and have the associated polys adjust. 1 Quote Link to comment
RyanMartinDesign Posted March 23, 2020 Author Share Posted March 23, 2020 On 3/20/2020 at 5:31 PM, zoomer said: Other options worth looking into would be : - Create Surface Array or even - Digital Terrain Model Thanks Zoomer, going to try this will surface array first and also look into digital terrain modelling. Not something i have ever explored Quote Link to comment
RyanMartinDesign Posted March 23, 2020 Author Share Posted March 23, 2020 11 hours ago, Pat Stanford said: I think the idea of "mated parts" in Solidworks would be something likely to be called "3D Contraints" that have not yet been implemented in Vectorworks 2020. I am still holding my breath. I think that trying to do this with symbols in VW is going to be very painful. Especially if your "push/pull" would result in things that change the size of the symbols. A mesh object is probably the closest you are going to get to something that you can move a vertex and have the associated polys adjust. Ah yes, yeah 3D constraints would be a very welcome addition to Vectorworks especially for more industrial design related pieces. I don't need to the Symbol properties to change automatically, only the mesh/ nurbs surface they are related too. With regards to a mesh object, can you define the mesh size/ properties? Quote Link to comment
Pat Stanford Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 Yes, you can define the mesh starting point. Make a flat surface from 3DPolygons with coincident edges. I actually just drew a triangle and then mirrored/duplicated it. I repeated this until I had a surface with the number of faces I wanted. Converted to 3DPolygons, Ungrouped and Converted to Mesh. You can then Edit Group to enter the mesh and Marquee select and drag or move points to where you want them to be. Not the best interface, but possibly doable. The faces will change shape when you drag the vertices. Quote Link to comment
RyanMartinDesign Posted March 23, 2020 Author Share Posted March 23, 2020 46 minutes ago, Pat Stanford said: Yes, you can define the mesh starting point. Make a flat surface from 3DPolygons with coincident edges. I actually just drew a triangle and then mirrored/duplicated it. I repeated this until I had a surface with the number of faces I wanted. Converted to 3DPolygons, Ungrouped and Converted to Mesh. You can then Edit Group to enter the mesh and Marquee select and drag or move points to where you want them to be. Not the best interface, but possibly doable. The faces will change shape when you drag the vertices. Okay awesome, that makes sense. Unfortunately what i'm trying to achieve is the triangulation of an organic archway structure. I have a different example (see attached) that is closer to what i'm after. This appears to have been created using the Grasshopper plug-in for Rhino, leading me to believe this may be achievable using Marionette? Quote Link to comment
Pat Stanford Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 Yes, it probably can be done using Marionette, but It would have to be one of the Marionette experts to help make that happen. @sbarrett @DomC @GRZEGORZ ??? 1 Quote Link to comment
Grzegorz Krzemien Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 @Pat Stanford, @roverton18 I don't think it is so simple as it looks like. This kind of things are on my personal list of "things able to do in Rhino/Grasshopper/Kangaroo/ but not so easy in Marionette". :) roverton18 wants to convert any surface into triangular one built from equilateral triangles. Mesh converts surface into any triangles that fits - surface may be built from set of different triangles. So a challenge is not to convert surface into mesh/triangle surface, but to rebuild a surface using base shape (in this case fixed, equilateral triangle). And I have no idea how to do this in Marionette, yet :) But I can give it a try now. I'll do some research and share, if I find any solution. 1 Quote Link to comment
RyanMartinDesign Posted March 24, 2020 Author Share Posted March 24, 2020 22 minutes ago, GRZEGORZ said: @Pat Stanford, @roverton18 I don't think it is so simple as it looks like. This kind of things are on my personal list of "things able to do in Rhino/Grasshopper/Kangaroo/ but not so easy in Marionette". 🙂 roverton18 wants to convert any surface into triangular one built from equilateral triangles. Mesh converts surface into any triangles that fits - surface may be built from set of different triangles. So a challenge is not to convert surface into mesh/triangle surface, but to rebuild a surface using base shape (in this case fixed, equilateral triangle). And I have no idea how to do this in Marionette, yet 🙂 But I can give it a try now. I'll do some research and share, if I find any solution. Hey Grzegorz! After abit more research on my part this is exactly what i'm after. It seems similar things i have explored were created using Grasshopper/ Kangaroo which is beyond my knowledge of marionette tools in Vectorworks. I'd appreciate anything you discover and look forward to seeing what you come up with. Thanks! Quote Link to comment
Grzegorz Krzemien Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 Hi. After some research I found something like this. The node that @Marissa Farrell wrote, works on a grid of points in 2D. Maybe she will be able to help. Tried this node on 3D surface, but it does not work. Still working on it. 2 Quote Link to comment
RyanMartinDesign Posted March 25, 2020 Author Share Posted March 25, 2020 1 hour ago, GRZEGORZ said: Hi. After some research I found something like this. The node that @Marissa Farrell wrote, works on a grid of points in 2D. Maybe she will be able to help. Tried this node on 3D surface, but it does not work. Still working on it. That is awesome and is exactly the avenue i'm trying to explore! Thanks for finding, will definitely be useful to explain the concept in 2D views Quote Link to comment
Marionette Maven Marissa Farrell Posted March 25, 2020 Marionette Maven Share Posted March 25, 2020 Hopping in to share another file that might help 2 Quote Link to comment
Grzegorz Krzemien Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 @Marissa Farrell Thanks for this. Could you tell me, if your node is able to work on a list of 3D points? E.g. I have a NURBS surface divided into list of points and I want to rebuild it with your node. I've done an approach, but it fails... It looks like much bigger math skills are needed than they teach on Architecture faculty🙂 mesh 3Dsurface.vwx Quote Link to comment
Marionette Maven Marissa Farrell Posted March 25, 2020 Marionette Maven Share Posted March 25, 2020 I'd have to re-explore! I actually haven't looked at this since I posted. I'll try to take a look later today. Quote Link to comment
Benson Shaw Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 (edited) Something to be careful about is the real world material thickness. A virtual/planar triangle can fit to all its neighbor instances without displacing them. If thickness is added , then every joint pushes away the remaining array. The push distance varies depending on 3d angle at each joint. Creating triangular solids with fully rounded, half cylinder edges would help, and calculate array via the center axis of the cylinder. But, again, if trying to reposition sections of the array, the contact line/position at each joint would need to adjust/roll depending on the new angle. But I think this can be done. I might give it a whirl later. -B Edited March 25, 2020 by Benson Shaw Name Quote Link to comment
RyanMartinDesign Posted March 26, 2020 Author Share Posted March 26, 2020 Hey All, Thanks for looking into this, I really appreciate the effort! Thanks for sharing that example Marissa, it is definitely the right avenue however without using Delaunay triangulation i'll need to specify a Real dimension for the Equilateral triangle used in the mesh, and instead of a 2D polygon i'll need to use a Nurbs surface like in Grzegorz' example. I've attached a quick .pdf to this comment that illustrates the 3D representation of the tile i'll be using (And i'll be figuring out construction methods etc once i've succeeded with this task!) - This is also with consideration to Benson's point, that the tiles will be connected along the longest vertices with a chamfered front face to allow the mesh/curtain/sheet to fold inwards also. Hope all this makes sense! EquilateralTileConcept.pdf Quote Link to comment
Benson Shaw Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 @roverton18 That all makes sense. I guess this means that folding along any edge will not exceed the chamfer. Or, perhaps the envisioned folds are always away from the chamfer. Parametric constraints would be very helpful for this. But the vwx parametric constraints only apply to 2d objects, walls and symbols containing 2d components (and only if the 2d components remain on the layer plane). I'm making a wish for 3d constraints. -B Quote Link to comment
RyanMartinDesign Posted April 2, 2020 Author Share Posted April 2, 2020 Hi all, Thanks for all your help on this project, I submitted that Vectorworks couldn't help me with this task and produced the model in Solidworks, afterwards then exporting back to Vectorworks as a Parasolid so i could continue the rest of my exploration. Subsequently after a quoting negotiation i'm exploring a simpler shape (a single vertical wall rather than an arched tunnel) and i'm hoping to achieve this in Vectorworks with some clever Surface Array modelling, i will let you know how i get on! Thanks Again 1 Quote Link to comment
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.