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Generic Solid or Solid Addition?


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Heya Gang,

 

I work in event design and i have a question for the think tank. If i have created a rather complex object with fillets, solid additions and subtractions, maybe some sweeps etc. and I then convert that into a symbol. Am I better off leaving it as a solid addition, or once I'm happy with it should I convert that to a generic solid? I'm thinking about the drag it has on working with the drawing, is there a simple better option her for performance?

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To me it's about file size on really large scenes. You can really cut down the weight of the file this way. Most of my show files are 300MB+

 

Not sure if performance gains - I get just fine performance overall. Should mention I still run 2019 and stay a full year behind development. 

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  • Vectorworks, Inc Employee

In content development world we have learned that simple objects like sweeps and extrudes should stay as sweeps and extrudes as converting to generic solids can sometimes increase the size of the object and symbol.  Once we start performing operations like subtractions, additions, and commands from the 3D modeling tool set we convert to generic solids to strip the object of geometry history and reduce the file size.  That being said, we always keep a backup copy of our files in non generic solids just in case a file corruption happens in the future and we need to examine the original symbol's creation methods.

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  • 3 years later...
On 3/3/2020 at 8:45 AM, JustinVH said:

sweeps and extrudes should stay as sweeps and extrudes as converting to generic solids can sometimes increase the size of the object and symbol.

 

Question for @JustinVH based on the above comment ...

 

When we know we will edit specific items, like Extrudes and Sweeps etcetera we leave them as is.

     ¿ We also assume that these are SOLIDS ?  Also ...Wall, Slab, Cone, Cylinder etcetera - all are SOLIDS

 

The option to Convert to Generic Solid is in the Modify > Convert menu

     ¿ Is there a Convert to Solid  option ?

 

In our experience, the OIP does NOT show any Vectorworks created 3D item as a SOLID. 

        Push/Pull a Layer Plane Rectangle, and the OIP indicates that it is an Extrude. Push/Pull this extrude and it is a Solid Subtraction or a Solid Addition in the OIP. Deform this Solid Subtraction /Solid Addition and the OIP states Generic Solid.

 

Imported items (STL/IGES/DWG) may show as Solid, or Mesh, or Generic Solid.

 

Question ¿ What distinguishes a SOLID in VectorWorks ? (Vs a Generic Solid) 

 

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Simple answer:  A Generic Solid is a solid object that has had all of it's history removed so you can't edit any of the parts used to create it.

 

Longer answer:  The basic Solid Objects in VW ("primitives") are Sweeps and Extrudes (including Tapered Extrude, Multiple Extrude, Extrude Along Path). The Sphere, Hemisphere and Cone objects are also Solid Objects.

 

Anything that is not one of these core objects is a Solid because it has had some operation done to it. This operation could be a Solid Addition, Solid Subtraction, Solid Intersection, or Solid Section. It could also be a Fillet or a Chamfer. All of these objects contain history of all the operations that have been done to them. You can enter them (kind of like a Group or a Symbol) and change the operations (make a component bigger or smaller, change its shape, etc.) and then when you exit the object, all of those operations will be redone using the changes.

 

Some of the tools in the 3D palette operate on Solids, but don't offer History with Taper Face and Deform being the main (only?) ones. When you use these tools on a solid it is converted to a Generic Solid that has no history.

 

Generic Solids can be used with the operations that have history to make more complex Solids using any of the history operations.

 

If you are certain that you will not need to change the history of an object, you can manually convert it to a Generic Solid and the history will be stripped and you will be left with just the shape. This can improve redraw times as it will not need to recalculate all the operations every time it redraws.

 

Walls, Slabs, Roofs, Pillars are not Solid Objects, but rather their own type of VW "primitive". In many cases they can be used in Solid Operations, but in that case they are converted to Solids and loose their special Wall/Slab/Roof/Pillar properties (auto join, hybrid nature, ability to insert doors/windows, etc.).

 

There is no Convert To Solid operation, only Convert to Generic Solids.  It would be too complicated to try and calculate what solid primatives are required to generate anything more than the simplest shapes while it is relatively easy to grab all of the surfaces of an object and stick them together to make a Generic Solid with no history.

 

NURBS and Subdivision objects are not solids, but in many cases can be converted to solids. Some NURBS operations (like Loft) have an option to automatically create a solid object from the operation rather than creating a NURBS Surface.

 

Advanced Topics:  Most 3D program are either a Surface Modeler (like Sketchup) or a Solids Modeler (Like SolidWorks, at least originally).  VW combines both types of modeling into a single program and does a pretty good job of allowing them to be use interchangeably and integrated together.  

 

Solids are great for things where you need to know the properties of the objects.  Because the interior of the object is solid, if you cut a hole, you will see the interior walls. With a Surface Modeler, if you cut a hole in the surface then you need to create new surfaces inside to represent the walls and bottom of the hole. With many operations this is done automatically, but if it does not happed automatically it can be difficult to generate what you need. Surface Modelers are great if you don't care about what is in the inside and only need to form the outside shape to meet the requirement.

 

Both are useful. It depends on what you are starting with and what you need to end up with to determine the best way to model any specific object.

 

Solids usually work best when you have somewhat "regular" shapes that you can Add and Subtract to generate the final object (take a bar, bend it, punch a hole through it, etc.)

 

Surfaces work better for more freeform shapes. Lofting with NURBS. Push/Pull of faces and edges in Subdivision.

 

HTH

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