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Kevin

VW12: Live Sections

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Is this long awaited day finally here? Are these really the live sections that we have long asked for?

Robert, Katie, anyone, please elaborate!!!

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Katie-

Is it finally possible in VW 12 to rotate & align the 2D View and workspace?

Thanks,

-H

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Sure Katie. I'm referring to having the ability to rotate the view of the editing window to an arbitrary angle when in the 2D Plan view. In AutoCad terms, UCS (user coordinate systems). I'm not referring to rotating the Crosshairs or the Grid angle, but actually rotating the view. While this is possible in 3D space in VW (Rotate 3D View command), it is noticeably absent in 2D and represents (in my opinion) the greatest shortcoming in VW up thru 11.5. Please see the following thread in Wishlist started over 3 years ago:

http://techboard.nemetschek.net/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=20;t=000517

Has VW 12 implemented this functionality?

Thanks for your attention.

-H

[ 10-12-2005, 10:46 PM: Message edited by: Haich ]

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I have being literally begging NNA for this. I cant see it listed in the PDF but maybe its hidden away in there somewhere. While the improvements look good, my office will not upgrade until view rotation is implimented. As it happens only yesterday I had a call from a colleague who has employed numerous new staff over the last few years all from AutoCad / Microstation backgrounds. He is so tired of listening to them moaning about this particular shortcoming that he is now tempted to change his entire office to AutoCad and PC - a changeover which could cost him over 150,000 euro.....! Please NNA... tell me its there...!

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Having little Autocad experience, would you guys please enlighten me on the advantages of the ability to rotate the 2d view. Wouldn't this complicate matters than solve them? I encounter angled walls all the time and I haven't had any problems drawing them. Layerlinks seem to be the best solution (not workaround) if you ask me.

Ariel

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I'm with you Ariel on this one - I think this is a migration problem rather than a real one.

If you absolutely do need to rotate the drawn information then there is a free Vectorbits Rotate Drawing plug-in which does this.

http://www.vectorbits.com/

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I agree entirely with Haich and RitchieHatch.

We have around 60 seats of Vectorworks, and the lack of a decent User Coordinate System is a big issue for us too. This single issue might force us to move 2 teams over to Autoc**, something we don't want to do!

Explanation for Katie : When you work on plans for a site with several buidings rotated 10 degrees from each other (for example) you need to be able to rotate the 2D view to work effectively on each building.

We have tried using the Vectorworks "I and J" Rotated Grid for snapping, but this is simply too difficult for our staff to work with. The human mind likes working with verticals and horizontals!

Please let this be there...or at least be in the pipeline!

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My vote is for rotate 2D view on the fly. Although the work around is hardly a major problem rather more of a nuisance.

1) Create all Buildings in unrotated Plan view on diff layers.

2)Layer link to Buildings unlock and rotate as required in Mod Layer.

3) To edit Building ... click in Mod Layer and edit in Plan.

4) Then back to Mod Layer to see what it looks like, ad infinitum.

There are obvious and annoying limitations with this Layers procedure which would be easily resolved with rotate 2D PlanView.

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I don't find the Layer Linking method such a problem, and there is a free third party plug-in which will allow you to rotate your plan if you want to.

Just out of interest - what programs beside AutoCAD allow you to rotate the 2D Plan View.

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I don't know whether this feature is in VW 12 or not- NNA has not responded to my question yet.. so I will wait to hear their answer. My fear is that, like Mike and Ariel, NNA also believes that this is not a "real" issue- to my knowledge, they have never acknowledged this in these boards. This is not a "migration" problem- this goes directly increasing efficiency, accuracy and interoperability with other programs.

Back in the days of manual drafting, if a building was at 11 degrees off of normal- we would pick up the paper, rotate it to align the building to the parallel rule and tape the sheet back down! Why does this concept seem so foriegn to NNA- its BASIC DRAFTING!!

I have been a VW user since 8 and upgraded every time to 9, 10 & 11. If this basic functionality is in 12- then kudos and thanks go to NNA! If its missing, I feel that we deserve an OFFICIAL response to if and when we will ever see this implemented.

-H

[ 10-13-2005, 01:13 PM: Message edited by: Haich ]

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Put me in the same camp as Haich and RichieHatch

I too desperately want to see a rotatable coordinate system built in to the software. We have tried all of the work arounds suggested above and found each of them to be counterproductive. The time one spends rotating information or drawing information that is not orthagonal to the grid leads to both inaccuracies in the drawings and time lost which are both unacceptable.

I have worked with both Autocad and Arris in the past and found the coordinate systems employed by both these programs to be far superior to any of the suggestions listed above. The payoff for these rotatable coordinate systems is increased accuracy, less frustration, easier training and much greater efficiency.

On the other hand I really am a big fan of VW and would not want to change back to another program but we really do need this. It is in my humble opinion the single most important area requiring work by the VW team.

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Haich:

Have you ever used the alt angle in the constraints palette?

It works fine for me, with large projects and differents angles it's really powerfull.

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Haich,

I'm sorry. I didn't get a chance to get here until just now to follow up with your questions.

VW 12 cannot rotate the coordinate system. It is still on the top of the wish list. I have a meeting with the R&D team this week. I'll be sure to bring this up again at the meeting. Thank you for your commitment to VectorWorks and providing the feedback.

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Michael -

Contact your local distributor for any addons they plan to incorporate with the product.

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The reason why I think this would complicate matters refers to what angles would I see in the info palette if ever this feature is implemented. Which coordinate system would a 30 degree angled line associate with? This may be easier to grasp for an Autocad user but still another concept to hurdle.

I'm still not convinced. Can you guys please post a sample project?

Ariel

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>Back in the days of manual drafting, if a building was at 11 degrees off of normal- we would pick up the paper, rotate it to align the building to the parallel rule and tape the sheet back down! Why does this concept seem so foriegn to NNA- its BASIC DRAFTING!!

Actually, Haich, you didn't have to do that if you used those drafting machines with the "rotatable" rulers attached to mechanical arms. [Wink]

Ariel

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Definitely need to have the ability to rotate the working view.

Tried the "rotate drawing" command but this creates havoc with the drawing and is not a viable option.

It is just one of those simple but very useful tools.

Be good also to have a "split screen" option.

Thanks

BG

The VW12 features look good.

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What about making a symbol of your building and editing that? The building can be placed any whichaway. The double-clicking to edit a symbol makes it pretty easy.

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Editing a symbol is working in isolation from the rest of the drawing though isn't it. It would be useful to edit angled buildings in context.

Maybe a "show objects while in symbol" checkbox could be useful. (to the particular instance of the symbol)

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"Actually, Haich, you didn't have to do that if you used those drafting machines with the "rotatable" rulers attached to mechanical arms."

The drafting arm was the rotatable UCS, it saved us the time and effort of having to rotate the sheet. A variable UCS system operates in much the same manner allowing one to set and recal a variety of angles which when activated become a temporary coordinate system for the drawing you are working on.

I have worked on jobs that benefited from several different coordinate systems. While I appreciate that incorporating a rotatable UCS may require a substantial effort by the programming team at NNA, VW fails to reach it's potential due to its current lack of one.

Cam

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Layer linking is no good if you have a single building with one wing at 60 degress and one at 30 degrees, but no clean place to split the plan and draw it seperately.

I don't understand why people say 'we don't need this feature' - just don't use it guys.

We have 50 staff doing major projects on Vectorworks and this is one of the reasons we get so many errors on our drawings. I regularly take a copy of plans drawn at an angle and rotate them to check them - I usually find a nightmare of not-quite-90-degree walls and lines.

This feature is clearly not in VW12, so it's worthwhile making a stand here to get it included in 12.5. NNA do listen it seems, there are many features in 12 that have been on this board for ages.

Well done otherwise NNA - 12 looks good....though have to wait until I get my hands on it to judge properly.

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