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Why don't Doors update their Symbols ?


zoomer

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Why can't Door PIOs,

when using a Symbol for the whole Geometry in General>"Use Symbol Geometry",

recognize and update, when :

 

1.

the Symbol gets renamed

 

2.

the Symbol get changed

 

3.

mark assigned Symbols as being in use

 

 

While

1. is just very error prone,

2. very tedious, if you need to re-apply the (same) Symbol again, just  to make the Door update,

3. is pretty catastrophic when using Purge Command !

 

 

 

Edited by zoomer
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@zoomer Have never tried/used/selected the Use Symbol Geometry option.

Never quite understood the reason/rationale.

According to VW Help...

  • Select Use Symbol Geometry and click Browse to select a door symbol. Click the Symbols selector. From the Resource Selector, double-click a different symbol to apply it.
  • The symbol Name displays in the Door Settings dialog box and the preview is updated with the selected symbol.
  • When a symbol is selected, all fields pertaining to the door’s geometry are disregarded; however, parametric values are still available for scheduling and reporting purposes only.

By selecting the Use Symbol Geometry, the OIP values DO NOT adjust the PIO for Width, Height, Angle, etc.?

And schedules display the OIP values?

Talk about confusing.

 

And I'm not seeing the symbols listed during a Purge. 

 

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Thanks for joining in.

 

 

1 hour ago, DBruhnke said:

Have never tried/used/selected the Use Symbol Geometry option.

 

Me either.

It was just a Revit import,

(I didn't get anything else than a RVT)

where at first I was happy that so much geometry came in as VW PIOs.

 

It took quite a while until I realized that the imported Door PIOs were just

standard Doors (with default size values), that kept their whole Geometry

from the the included Symbol.

(The Doors made correct Cutouts in Wall)

 

So basically just something like inserting a Symbol into a Wall,

with a Door PIO overhead container.

 

 

1 hour ago, DBruhnke said:

The symbol Name displays in the Door Settings dialog box and the preview is updated with the selected symbol.

 

Yes it does.

(BTW

I can't neither read or distinquish from there, nor from Resource Manager,

as both cut the Names long before my important Suffixes start !)

 

 

1 hour ago, DBruhnke said:

When a symbol is selected, all fields pertaining to the door’s geometry are disregarded; however, parametric values are still available for scheduling and reporting purposes only.

 

Yes.

But You have to be aware that the Symbol may be a 2 m wide Door but your

Door Pio is still like 0,90 x 2,00 m set, which may appear in your schedules

and calculations instead.

 

That is why I asked VW for at least reading out the data from the Symbols

cut volume or bounding box and adjust the PIOs values.

 

 

1 hour ago, DBruhnke said:

And I'm not seeing the symbols listed during a Purge. 

 

OK, so it is just about Symbols in Doors miss a Link to Symbol Library,

like any other usage of Symbols inserted in Files (or other resources)

do have - and what we are used to.

 

You can check again, by just renaming the Symbol in RM.

I am pretty sure that Purge may think it is obsolete.

(Maybe Purge thinks that a Symbol with previous name is still in use,

but that doesn't exist anymore if it was renamed)

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On 2/25/2020 at 6:26 PM, zoomer said:

BTW

I can't neither read or distinquish from there, nor from Resource Manager,

as both cut the Names long before my important Suffixes start !

 

 

Looks like that is either a Windows-only thing

(as I can read them on Mac)

or a thing about using "-" in between words, to show more than a single line of the name.

 

(I would so much prefer "_" over that "-" needed for intelligent separation or Class Hierarchy)

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On 2/26/2020 at 11:56 AM, Stefan Bender said:

I think it would be a very bad and dangerous idea to use the symbol's bounding box or other symbol data for calculations or anything else but mere display. Overriding (or even worse, changing) data the user entered could create complications. The symbol is just meant for optical purposes.

 

Hmmh,

I don't see much meaning in setting a single Door 1,20 m x 2.50 m but showing

a double Door 2,50 m x 2,50 m for optical reasons either.

Using Bounding or Cut Box dimensions would at least fit in most cases.

For Imports, a VW DOOR could use these Dimensions, while users could put in

different Dimensions later.  When creating a Door and adding a Symbol,

VW could ask about changing to differing Dimensions of the Symbol applied.

 

Maybe just a Revit Import thing,

as all Doors, no matter which dimensions, came in at the same default like dimensions.

I think it is pretty likely that the Doors once had proper Dimension Settings in Revit.

As most of their Symbol's names apply.

So it would be nice if VW Import could use the Door Data to setup a resulting VW's Door's Data.

 

Also I don't think that those Doors in Revit used simply Blocks inside but were just typical

Family Members that appear in Revit similar to VW's PIOs.

As there are imported Families of special Hardware like Door Knobs, similar as used in VW.

Although the imported Hardware Symbols aren't used as nested Symbols inside the resulting

VW Door.

The whole Revit Door with all Components is just slammed into a single Symbol.

Edited by zoomer
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