class text style use at creation - not working?

[Benedick_Miller]

Hi,

I feel like I am missing something here: I have a class and I have a custom text style. In the class graphic attributes dialog I check Text Style use at creation ON and select my custom text style from the drop-down.

In the drawing I set: make all attributes by class, in the attributes palette.

I select the text tool and enter text - the text is  <Un-Styled> - it is not set as <Class Text Style> as I would expect. It uses the class pen attributes, not the class text style. What am i doing wrong please?

In the text tool dropdown there is no option for class text style, so I can't use that to set the text to use class text style.

I'm so confused!

 

Put another way: how to use the Use at Creation for Text Styles in Classes properly?

 

Vectorworks 2020 SP 2.1 with Spotlight & Braceworks

MacOS 10.15.3 (Catalina) 

 

Edited February 7, 2020 by Benedick_Miller
improved the question!

[grant_PD]

I have often asked myself this question.  I don't think it works.  

[Benedick_Miller]

39 minutes ago, grant_PD said:

I have often asked myself this question.  I don't think it works.  

Pity...

[Benedick_Miller]

maybe someone from Vectorworks would like to comment? Is this a bug, or a feature? 😉

 

 

[MullinRJ]

Hello Benedick,

   Try this, instead of setting "Make All Attributes By Class", set the attributes to "Remove By Class Settings" before you create any text. Also, make sure the "Use At Creation" check box (in the top left corner) is OFF in the "Edit Class(es)" dialog. Leave the "Text Style - Use At Creation" checkbox ON. Lastly, use a different color for the Text Style than for the Class Pen Color. That way you'll see which color is making it through.

 

   Whatever the deal is with this feature, it is not designed to work well. I only just now discovered that using "Make All Attributes By Class" would improve the expected response, and that was on a whim. I've messed with this feature several times over the last few months and had the same confusion you're experiencing. It seems that using "Make All Attributes By Class" comes in after everything is created and overwrites the Pen Color, and possibly the Fill Color, too. I haven't tested the class Fill Color yet.

 

   WAD or not, this feature needs improvement. This is anything but intuitive.

 

Raymond

[Benedick_Miller]

@MullinRJ thank you. I will try your suggestions.

 

As you say:

2 hours ago, MullinRJ said:

this feature needs improvement. This is anything but intuitive.

 

Indeed!

 

The general rule in our company is to usually keep all attributes by class on and use class attributes. To have to turn this off, to write some text, them back on again to continue drawing is not something my colleagues in-house will do, it is too disruptive to the everyday workflow. In that case it is easier & quicker to assign a text style after creating text.

 

In practice, the way i see it,  this means that the Use On Creation for Text Styles in the Class Settings Dialog is broken. Pity.

[grant_PD]

The goal here as with all settings in VW should be that the user has complete control over the look of the documents they create, and should be able to replicate that control across drawings, in the most efficient manner possible.  Ray and I have spoken at length about this subject.  I do not believe that it is enough that the control is "available" to the user, if they have to jump through a lot of hoops to get there.  

 

I want a dashboard of some sort for my drawing setup.  One where I can go down the line and just input the parameters for all the tools that I use all the time.  There really aren't that many.  

[Neil Barman]

@Benedick_Miller Is what I am doing in this video what you are trying to accomplish?

 

[grant_PD]

I believe, at least in my case, I have found the bug.  Your text style cannot override a class setting, it will break the link between the settings.  See the attached video, if my text color does not match the class color, the text is inserted "unstyled."  Matching them makes the text be by class.  

 

What needs to happen is for the text style to have a color "by class" setting or an override.  

[Benedick_Miller]

@grant_pd

Quote

I believe, at least in my case, I have found the bug.  Your text style cannot override a class setting, it will break the link between the settings.  See the attached video, if my text color does not match the class color, the text is inserted "unstyled."  Matching them makes the text be by class.  

 

yes that is what my post is about - selecting use on creation for text styles does not work as expected. 

[grant_PD]

great, well let's hope they move this one on over to bug central for disinfecting. 

[Neil Barman]

16 minutes ago, Benedick_Miller said:

 

yes that is what my post is about - selecting use on creation for text styles does not work as expected. 

Have you contacted technical support for assistance? If not, please do get in touch with them so they can help you.

 

Also, do make sure you’re running the most current version; your first post indicates that you may be using SP2.1 but there have been updates since.

[grant_PD]

@Neil Barman  I am on the most up to date version, and as my video I posted shows, there is clearly an override happening that is not intended.  

[Neil Barman]

3 minutes ago, grant_PD said:

@Neil Barman  I am on the most up to date version, and as my video I posted shows, there is clearly an override happening that is not intended.  

Yours does looks like it may be a bug. Good catch. Please do submit your video so it can be investigated and if it's a bug, corrected. The Bug Submit page is here. Thanks!

 

Unless I'm mistaken, what @Benedick_Miller originally described was different from what you demonstrated in your video, so it will be good to have Tech Support hear about his issue too.

[Benedick_Miller]

22 hours ago, Neil Barman said:

@Benedick_Miller Is what I am doing in this video what you are trying to accomplish?

 

 @Neil Barman yes that is what I am trying to accomplish - it doesn't seem to work for me. It seems to work for you! How?

 

video attached.

(In the video I select the Custom Text style, not the Class Text style, but it makes no difference - the point is that the text does not have the class text style applied "on creation" - that's the bit I don't get.)

text-style-test-scratch.vwx

Edited March 2, 2020 by Benedick_Miller
added explaination

[Neil Barman]

@Benedick_Miller is it looking like the class' fill and pen are overriding the text style's own colours. Definitely do send this in via the Bug Submit form so that it can get investigated. Thanks!

[Benedick_Miller]

PS - I realise now that, for classes, if use at creation is on for graphic attributes it overrides use Text Styles on Creation for line and fill colors. So I guess this is a feature in fact?

To me it seems to not work as expected - I get the font but not the rest of the class style. I guess it is meant to be this way after all, but I would prefer if use text style actually did apply the text style on creation.

Where I work we generally use text styles that are complementary to the class graphic attributes so that text stands out against the objects. It is useful to us to have different text styles and object styles in a single class.

We normally only use a single font but different colors, so trying to do what I hoped does not work at all as the only thing left from use text styles on creation is the font (and text size)

I understand now that this does not work in Vectorworks after all. Pity.

Thanks for all the help.

[Benedick_Miller]

10 minutes ago, Neil Barman said:

@Benedick_Miller is it looking like the class' fill and pen are overriding the text style's own colours. Definitely do send this in via the Bug Submit form so that it can get investigated. Thanks!

OK - will do. Is it a bug or a feature? ;-)

[Neil Barman]

Just now, Benedick_Miller said:

OK - will do. Is it a bug or a feature? 😉

I would suggest submitting as a bug and having the team assist in figuring this one out with you, especially given what you noted in your PS post above. The development team does listen to feedback (I know this first hand from even before I joined the company) so they appreciate hearing use cases to help tune and enhance tools and commands.  

[Benedick_Miller]

Bug Submitted.

[Amber Hine]

Hmmm, I also find this to be 'boring'. insisting on separate classes for text and graphic just increases unnecessary classes in my view. Extra button presses. Extra time and input and opportunity for error.