Create 2D schematic symbols from lighting symbols

[Daniel Dickman]

I there any way to link data between 2D schematic objects and spotlight lighting instruments? It would be interesting to have the ability to import a lighting symbol from the vectorworks library that includes 2D geometry, 3D geometry AND a 2D schematic representation with all physical connections. I would love to find a workflow that links a lighting symbol in my plot to the 2D schematic instance. This way, when I update a channel number/DMX address/position on a light plot, that information would automatically update in the 2D schematic instance of that fixture.

 

Does that make any sense? Does anyone have a similar workflow already?

[Ryan Seybert]

@Daniel Dickman Schematic views are huge work in progress.  Currently, the Schematic Views function simply creates a plug-in object that is essentially a 2D "Hidden Line" representation of a fixture or hanging position from the view that you specify.  You can interact with the lighting fixtures at the schematic view level by selecting the fixture and the clicking on Lighting Device Properties.  This will open up the "Lighting Device Properties" that looks similar to what would be displayed in the OIP.  I've had some success using the Spotlight Numbering Tool on the Schematic View objects.  Unfortunately, none of this information can be displayed graphically at the schematic view level so trying to keep track of what fixtures are what is pretty difficult when you're working with a large volume of fixtures.

 

There are few posts in the forum discussing the inadequacies of this new feature at length.  It seems like its on the dev teams radar to make it more functional but who knows when they're going to roll out the fixes.  I've been beating my head up against this feature over the last week trying to draw vertical positions with no luck.

[Conrad P]

Hi Daniel,

 

Your question makes absolute sense to me 🙂 You want ConnectCAD and Spotlight to talk to each other - and I think that's a great idea. I'll brainstorm this with the Spotlight guys and see where we can take this.

 

Conrad

[Ryan Seybert]

@Daniel Dickman I feel like my previous post might have led you astray. Since then I, alongside a few others, have been testing the feature ad nauseam to see if we can figure out its kinks.  Here is a list of what I have discovered with this feature, some of which will be useful to you.

 

• Schematic views do not like "Hanging Positions".  It will react better to simple rigging objects like a "Lighting Pipe" or a "Lighting Pipe Ladder".  I believe this was touched on in an earlier post in this thread or another.
• Not converting to a "Hanging Position" will yield a proper 2D Schematic View complete with accessories and Label Legends when "Top" is selected.
• Converting to a "Hanging Position" will yield an almost identical 2D version of the source geometry when "Top" is selected.  When "Front" is selected, it will yield a "Hidden Line" version of the position with no accessory or label legend information attached.
• When label legends are populated by Schematic Views, classes that are associated with a label legend do control the Schematic Views display to a point.  Allitems need to be classed appropriately.  This means that containers need to have an appropriate class assigned to them not only at the label legend level but also within the symbol.  This will be problematic if you're utilizing the same container symbol for more than one field.
• Schematic Views do not show "Modify Lighting Instrument Color" based on color field when selected in the Spotlight Preferences.
• Accessories will display in a schematic view, however, they're placed at the top of the Schematic View, not with the fixture they're assigned to.
• The spotlight numbering tool does work directly on the "Lighting Device In Schematic View" objects and the input is reflected appropriately.

I hope this helps a little more.  There is a pretty active thread on the subject matter. Here is the link:  

 

 

[Daniel Dickman]

@rseybert Sorry for the confusion, my post was in regards to the 2D schematic used to create signal riser diagrams within ConnectCAD not the schematic views in Spotlight. (But I do feel the pain with that tool, and have been active in that thread) I think it might benefit Vectorworks to find some better naming conventions to differentiate between these two tools. Maybe "hybrid elevations" would make more sense for the spotlight schematic tool.

 

@Conrad P Yes, having spotlight and ConnectCAD talk to each other would be awesome. In regards to pre-made ConnectCAD symbols/devices, do you see a time where prebuilt devices will move out of the device builder tool and into the spotlight/service select symbol libraries?

[Conrad P]

Hi Daniel,

 

Finding names for stuff can be a tough call as we expand across more design disciplines.

 

Regarding your question, both the Device Builder and Service Select symbol libraries are valid approaches and in a way serve different needs.

 

Device Builder is better suited to creating schematic devices because it constructs your device out of data preserving your particular house style. I could see some fun improvements to DB like adding richer graphics assuming we can store these somehow in the database.

 

You can of course save devices as symbols and share them with your colleagues. But for us distributing schematic device symbols worldwide would run into the problem that designers have different preferences regarding colors, fonts, units, grid settings and therefore socket spacing. Device Builder doesn't have this problem.

 

Where symbol libraries really come into their own is for modelling physical equipment items. Already we are working to leverage Vectorworks existing symbol content and integrate it with ConnectCAD Equipment objects to provide accurate, rich graphics. Moving forward I can see the day where we have physical equipment symbols available to complement Device Builder makes and models.

 

Thanks for getting me thinking about this. As ever, it's great talking with you guys.

 

Conrad

 

[tk_]

Hi @Conrad P, I wondered if there had been any progress with the Spotlight and ConnectCad integration.

 

I too wanted to be able to pull information together. For example, the ability to show the connection a lighting fixture may have to its power source/breaker and if multiple lighting fixtures are connected together, what the load on that path may be.

 

 

As it stands the breakers in my drawings are devices, and now I am wondering how the best way for me would be to create a lighting fixture device and maybe tie this information together. 

[spettitt]

I've got a few lighting fixtures as simple devices in our device symbol library, though a schematic showing individual lighting devices isn't usually required for events, but might be valuable for us for an install.

 

I'd just make a device from device builder for your fixtures and then duplicate as much as needed, but if you want to be more automated, a script that makes a CC device from each Spotlight lighting device is probably possible. One snag might be that Spotlight lighting devices don't understand power link outs, believe it or not, so you would have to maybe assume a link out socket should be created and then delete it from devices where it doesn't exist.

[tk_]

yeh this is more for install rather than events.

 

I wonder where I would get if I put a spotlight lighting device symbol inside a device, then add any other sockets from ConnectCad like power.

[spettitt]

1 hour ago, tk_ said:

yeh this is more for install rather than events.

 

I wonder where I would get if I put a spotlight lighting device symbol inside a device, then add any other sockets from ConnectCad like power.

 

Well, I wouldn't go down that road, it sounds like a data integrity nightmare.

 

Sticking to the standard system of Lighting Device (on a scaled layout layer) + ConnectCAD Device (on a 1:1 schematic layer) is going to go the best. The thing here is that if you were to do this in spotlight (with your protective devices in a spotlight Distribution unit and running spotlight Cables to your loads), it understands connected load a bit more than connectcad does. But those tools can't hold a candle to connectcad in terms of building a connected installation. It wouldn't be a stretch to write a script that builds a tree heirarchy based on which devices are connected using the 'PWR' or 'PWR+' signal types and then post that to a record on each device. Each output socket on your protective devices could have a phase field as 1, 2, 3 pre-set as well. I might work on this at some point.

 

But for the moment, I think you'll have the most luck keeping your spotlight lighting device wherever it needs to go in your installation model, and then a matching schematic device on your schematic layer.

Edited October 15, 2023 by spettitt

[Conrad Preen]

Hello everyone! This is nice conversation here. Just so you know we are actively working on more and better Spotlight integration. But you may not be aware that you can already link a ConnectCAD Equipment Item to any Spotlight object including Lighting Devices and this way if you have Lighting Devices and a ConnectCAD schematic this will tell ConnectCAD where those are in the real world. What's missing is the automation - the basic building block is there.

 

Please try it out and give me your feedback.

 

Conrad

[tk_]

Arghhh this sounds amazing, definitely look forward to see how more integrations develop. 
 

@Conrad P how can I link a spotlight object to a connected object. I am assuming this will then act like a pivot table where information from the linked devices can be harvested. 
 

thank you as always. 

[tk_]

How exactly can a spotlight object be connected to a ConnectCad object. I think I am missing something obvious. 

[Nikolay Zhelyazkov]

8 hours ago, tk_ said:

How exactly can a spotlight object be connected to a ConnectCad object. I think I am missing something obvious. 

You can attach equipment item to spotlight objects, either by using the equipment item tool and clicking over spotlight objects (they will highlight in red) or by selecting the blue point on the selected equipment item, clicking on it and then clicking over the spotlight object (highlight should help again).

[tk_]

So for example I create a new layer in my schematic and drag the lighting fixtures into that layer. I then select my ConnectCad device which represents that lighting fixture and I select the "Equipment Item" tool. When I hover over the lighting fixture spotlight item it doesn't seem to do anything. My devices don't seem to have any blue points either.

 

 

Please can you elaborate a little. 

 

Thank you

[Nikolay Zhelyazkov]

Hello @tk_,

 

A few important notes about this:

 

1) The Equipment Item object is the one that gets attached to spotlight objects, not the Device object

2) The supported spotlight objects are in the Event Design toolset in the ConnectCAD workspace - Lighting Device, Television, Video Screen, Blended Screen, Led Screen, Speaker Array, Speaker and Video Camera

 

Here is a short demo showing how this is done. After you attach the equipment item to the spotlight object you can still use it as regular equipment item and name it the same as a device to make it represent that device in the 3D layout.

 

 

Best Regards,

Nikolay Zhelyazkov

 

[tk_]

Arghhhhh,

I see I see, thanking for taking the time to explain that. This is very useful. 
 

I’ll have a play around with want information I can pull together once they are linked. 
 

thank you again

tk

[tk_]

So another thing I am wondering.

 

How is it best to represent a rack item for example an audio amplifier. 

e.g I want to have an audio amplifier device in the schematic, I also want that device to be represented in 2D rack and 3D rack views, but I also want to be able to connect a cable to it so that it is part of the electrical power planning.