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milezee

3d Objects 'Clipping/Disappearing' When Zooming In

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As described, when I'm zooming in my models are starting to disappear as if they are being cut by a clipping plane or clip cube, this has never happened before, running VW 2020 Architect on a 2014 MBP screenshot attached of issue, Open GL on design layer, any thoughts ? tia ,

Screenshot 2020-01-14 at 14.49.08.png

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@milezee if you try the same file in 2019 , are you seeing this issue? Could you share your file for additional testing?

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I get this when there is something really really far away from the origin or my model is way off of 0,0.  If you copy and paste that stool (don't just select all, since you might grab the offending geometry again) into a fresh file and make sure you're around world origin, does it still happen?

Edited by EAlexander

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At least the chair is not far from internal origin.

 

But it is pretty off scale.

It is about 2 x 2,5 cm in my metric file.

So if I scale the Symbol to a reasonable size it will zoom without diminishing.

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@EAlexander yeh still same issue 🤔@JuanP I'm getting a similar issue when I use a chair from the stock VW library within the software, its not as bad, but still clips the 3d geometry if I zoom right in 

Screenshot 2020-01-14 at 16.37.00.png

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I wonder quite a bit too why I can't zoom in so far,

to be able to see the chair in wrong scale.

A Centimeter in a Meter files isn't that microscopic I think.

 

Maybe it has to do with the new OpenGL with variable detail usage,

which may not be able to add enough details at such zoom levels ?

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It is strange.

In your import file (from my old blank file template in meters)

I can't draw Rectangles smaller than 0,05 m x 0,05 m !?

 

I tried in a new blank file from my template.

There I can zoom in much deeper. And I can draw Rectangles much

smaller than in your example.

 

But it doesn't help,

I have large display issues in OpenGL nevertheless !

(Selection boundary and grips, off from object, object shows varying wrong

aspect ratios, disappearing object when I fit View to selected object)

Edited by zoomer

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@JuanP @zoomer yes I never checked the scale , here is another test file, the chair in this file is a stock chair from within the VW library, if I zoom into the feet or any other part of the model the geometry starts tearing away when you get very close ??🤔

Chair Zoom Test 2.vwx

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In your example, in mm,

I can't seem to create Rectangles in OpenGL smaller than 20 x 20 mm !?

It is like there is an invisible Grid Snap.

I can in 2D Top Plane View though.

Edited by zoomer

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@zoomer pretty sure my template tolerances are set to 1mm, I can draw a rectangle 1mm x 1mm, I have just created a cube, approx 300 x 400 x 400mm, the same happens if I zoom into that, it starts to tear away as you get really close , hopefully @JuanP may have discovered what the issue is 

Screenshot 2020-01-14 at 17.09.16.png

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34 minutes ago, milezee said:

pretty sure my template tolerances are set to 1mm,

 

Yes,

and I tried to set the decimals up 0,00000 but that did not change anything.

I can draw smaller objects in 2D Top Plan,

but OpenGL has a virtual coarse 20x20 mm grid, no matter which OpenGL Quality.

I think VW behaves strange.

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14 minutes ago, zoomer said:

but OpenGL has a virtual coarse 20x20 mm grid,

 

 

Basically I like it.

 

So if you start to draw by free hand,

VW will still position everything on the Grid. No ugly numbers in dimensions 🙂

 

It just should be dynamic and view display scale dependent like in Bricscad.

That way you can avoid 90% of numeric inputs.

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20 minutes ago, zoomer said:

 

Yes,

and I tried to set the decimals up 0,00000 but that did not change anything.

I can draw smaller objects in 2D Top Plan,

but OpenGL has a virtual coarse 20x20 mm grid, no matter which OpenGL Quality.

I think VW behaves strange.

 

 

Sorry,

it works well as it should in Orthogonal OpenGL.

The drawing issues are only in OpenGL (narrow?) Perspective Mode for me !

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4 minutes ago, zoomer said:

 

 

Sorry,

it works well as it should in Orthogonal OpenGL.

The drawing issues are only in OpenGL (narrow?) Perspective Mode for me !

@zoomer that's it, that's the problem, I always use 3d perspectives in 'normal', if I switch to 'orthagonal' the tearing doesn't happen when I zoom in. @JuanP is that a display bug ?  

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14 hours ago, milezee said:

 

@zoomer that's it, that's the problem, I always use 3d perspectives in 'normal', if I switch to 'orthagonal' the tearing doesn't happen when I zoom in. @JuanP is that a display bug ?  

 

This bug was actually one of the reasons I moved away from perspective. The other being it's much simpler to switch between orthogonal front/side views etc. Which is a shame because I'd rather work in perspective.

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On 1/14/2020 at 1:19 PM, milezee said:

@zoomer that's it, that's the problem, I always use 3d perspectives in 'normal', if I switch to 'orthagonal' the tearing doesn't happen when I zoom in. @JuanP is that a display bug ?  

We are looking into this...thanks for the files and the additional info.

 

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We've been looking at the provided file, Chair Test.vwx. I think the problem is the symbol size. There's been an error in units when importing. It measures approx. 18mm width. It should be more in the neighbourhood of 16-18". Note that in Top/Plan, a Fit to Objects will result in a zoom factor of over 46,000%. That's how small it is.

 

When I use Scale Objects, including the Entire Drawing setting (so that it also scales symbols), and scale it to a realistic size, the problem disappears.

 

So what I think is happening is that this is a consequence of how perspective views are done, not a bug. The chair is so small that when you zoom in to fill the screen with the view of it, the picture plane of the perspective begins to clip the model. When the size is corrected, the problem disappears because a massive zoom factor is not needed in order to make the model fill the screen.

 

 

image (3).png

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@Geoff McBeath hi Geoff, thanks for chipping in, how do you explain if I create a cube, of a reasonable size, 300 x 400 x 500mm , then zoom in and the tearing still happens ? Yet if you switch to an orthogonal perspective the problem goes away ? Either way hopefully the software engineers can fix 👍

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20 minutes ago, milezee said:

@Geoff McBeath hi Geoff, thanks for chipping in, how do you explain if I create a cube, of a reasonable size, 300 x 400 x 500mm , then zoom in and the tearing still happens ? Yet if you switch to an orthogonal perspective the problem goes away ? Either way hopefully the software engineers can fix 👍

Perspective has an eye location with a near and far clipping plane, sometimes the near plane (projection plane always in front of the eye) intersects the model causing the clipping artifacts.  Orthogonal projection has no eye position, it only has a viewing direction so the near and far planes can be set extremely far from the model bounds.  It sounds like you're getting into an edge case with your perspective and running out of precision; we should be able to fix it or work around it.  Just so you know OpenGL generally uses 32bit floats while the model is stored in 64bit floats requiring us to work with different spaces.

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12 minutes ago, Josh Loy said:

Just so you know OpenGL generally uses 32bit floats while the model is stored in 64bit floats requiring us to work with different spaces.

@Josh Loy hi Josh, I haven't got a clue what 32bit floats & 64bits floats are 🤣, but I believe you 😊 and hopefully you guys can find some kind of fix in the next SP release 👍

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2 minutes ago, milezee said:

@Josh Loy hi Josh, I haven't got a clue what 32bit floats & 64bits floats are 🤣, but I believe you 😊 and hopefully you guys can find some kind of fix in the next SP release 👍

@milezee It's nerd speak and unfortunately prevents us from drawing small objects up close 😂; we want to fix it and will look at fixing it, but targeting a service pack may be a little aggressive.

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This is issue has been updated and recorded in the following case/JIRA # VB-129333

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I get this same issue if my scale is set to 1:200 on normal perspective. Things that are sized at a reasonable scale, I can't zoom in close at all to make changes. I have to stay at an uncomfortable distance away for it to be visible.

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