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MartinFahrer

Title Block Setting Updating scale question

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It seams that when I  use this button I get a 1:48 engineering type scale instead of the standard fraction in an architect scale 1/4"=1'-0".  

 

I don't know why it doesn't match what is shown as my scale in the viewport.  See attached images

 

1- What I see

2-What I want

3-Viewport

Scale I get pushing update.jpg

Scale I would like to see.jpg

Viewport.jpg

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Hello @MartinFahrer,

 

The TBB is displaying the paper scale of the layer (respectively the custom scale fo the Viewport) which is always in this format.

 

Anyway, as this seems to be important feature for you and other users, we will investigate if it could be done the way you want it.

 

Best Regards,

Nikolay Zhelyazkov

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5 hours ago, Nikolay Zhelyazkov said:

Hello @MartinFahrer,

 

The TBB is displaying the paper scale of the layer (respectively the custom scale fo the Viewport) which is always in this format.

 

Anyway, as this seems to be important feature for you and other users, we will investigate if it could be done the way you want it.

 

Best Regards,

Nikolay Zhelyazkov

 

That would be great! Architect scale is traditionally represented in the form of a fraction ie - 1/4"=1'-0".  Standard for all my drawings going to construction since hand drafting.  It's an architectural graphic standard, as referenced in the attached image below from  Ramsey/Sleeper's first edition Architectural Graphic standards circa 1932.  

 

 

SKM_C754e20011308110.jpg

Edited by MartinFahrer

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4 hours ago, Nikolay Zhelyazkov said:

Hello @MartinFahrer, @Pat Stanford, @Matt Panzer,

 

Could you give me your opinion on this question: Should the TBB use the architectural scale as set in the viewport scale popup or as in the Drawing Label (where 1:1 is set as Actual Size and 1:2 is set as Half Actual Size, etc.)

 

Thanks,

Nikolay Zhelyazkov

 

Hi @Nikolay Zhelyazkov ,

 

This really needs to be an option like in the Drawing Label so the user can switch the scale display between Architectural and Engineering format.

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For the US we need both options. For "building" drawings, the typical/conventional display of the scale is the architectural mode (i.e. 1/4"=1' or  1 1/2"=1' for details) while for site drawings and mechanical design the standard is Engineering of 1:1, 1:10, etc.

 

If there is only a single viewport on the layer then the TBB should take on that scale. If all of the viewports are the same scale then the TBB should take on that scale. If there are different scale viewports then N/A? I don't know the standard for that case.

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6 hours ago, Nikolay Zhelyazkov said:

Hello @MartinFahrer, @Pat Stanford, @Matt Panzer,

 

Could you give me your opinion on this question: Should the TBB use the architectural scale as set in the viewport scale popup or as in the Drawing Label (where 1:1 is set as Actual Size and 1:2 is set as Half Actual Size, etc.)

 

Thanks,

Nikolay Zhelyazkov

 

Prefer the option to use either and have the flexibility to set either as the default.  I prefer Architecture, which is "Actual Size" for 1:1 or 1/2"=1'-0" instead of 1:24.

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@Pat Stanford 

 

No if you press "update scale" in the TBB  sheet Data the scale is engineer if I want to have the TBB scale architectural I have to type in manually 1/2"=1'-0".  see below examples.

 

 

image.png

TTB Engineer when update scale.JPG

Result scale engineer.JPG

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@MartinFahrer I thought that was what I was saying. 

 

If the user sets the scale as Architectural then it should be Arch in both Drawing Label and TBB. If the user sets scale as Engineering then it should be Eng in both DL and TBB.

 

The edge case is where there are multiple viewports with different scales and even worse different standard (eng/arch).

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Posted (edited)
36 minutes ago, Pat Stanford said:

@MartinFahrer I thought that was what I was saying. 

 

If the user sets the scale as Architectural then it should be Arch in both Drawing Label and TBB. If the user sets scale as Engineering then it should be Eng in both DL and TBB.

 

The edge case is where there are multiple viewports with different scales and even worse different standard (eng/arch).

 

 

Hmmmm so where does a user  "set" that then?  Or are you saying that is how it "should" work and I am misunderstanding you saying this is how it works.

 

You can clearly see in my example that the Drawing Label is default architectural style, however the TBB is in engineer.    If you look at screen capture #1 you see the design layer is set at 1/2" scale.  Screen Capture #2 the viewport is set at 1/2" scale which is reflected in the drawing label. Screen capture #3 shows when using the update scale in the TBB it defaults to engineer and I have to manually type in architectural. Note the viewport scale is set to 1/2" (Architectural) and the scale in the TBB is clearly 1:24 (engineer ). Capture #4 shows the document settings in units is set to fractional / feet and inches, not decimal.

 

I can't think of any place else where I can set scale or units.  If you know please direct me.

 

Thanks

Design Layer Scale.JPG

Viewport.JPG

Viewport with TBB.JPG

Document Units.JPG

Edited by MartinFahrer

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I am saying how it SHOULD work. Which is what I think Nikolay was asking.

 

The TBB definitely only does Eng scales right now without manual entry.

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Pat Stanford said:

If all of the viewports are the same scale then the TBB should take on that scale. If there are different scale viewports then N/A? I don't know the standard for that case.

 

It might vary by industry, but in entertainment "As Noted" would be common for multiple scales on one sheet (assuming each view has a drawing label that indicates the scale).

 

 

Edited by Andy Broomell
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1 hour ago, Andy Broomell said:

 

It might vary by industry, but in entertainment "As Noted" would be common for multiple scales on one sheet (assuming each view has a drawing label that indicates the scale).

 

 

Yep that's how I do it.

 

@Andy Broomell  really brings up a good point @Pat Stanford @Nikolay Zhelyazkov . If there are multiple scaled viewports the TBB should be able to recognize that and defalt to the scale being "AS NOTED"

This would be the same reason we want to have the choice of architectural or engineer depending on how the design layer is set up, it just makes things more efficient and faster than typing it out.  All you have to do is click on Update scale. 

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Thank you all for the feedback. So to summarize, what you expect is:

 

1. The TBB should check all viewport scales and set its scale to AS NOTED if there are multiple viewports with different scales

2. If the viewports have the same scale, the TBB should check the scale format (arch or engineering) of the drawing labels in the viewports annotation and use it. I suppose that the first found drawing label in each viewport should be used for this comparison.

3. If there are multiple viewports with the same scale but their drawing labels are with different scale format, then what?

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6 hours ago, Nikolay Zhelyazkov said:

Thank you all for the feedback. So to summarize, what you expect is:

 

1. The TBB should check all viewport scales and set its scale to AS NOTED if there are multiple viewports with different scales

2. If the viewports have the same scale, the TBB should check the scale format (arch or engineering) of the drawing labels in the viewports annotation and use it. I suppose that the first found drawing label in each viewport should be used for this comparison.

3. If there are multiple viewports with the same scale but their drawing labels are with different scale format, then what?

 

#1 and #2 sound good.

In the very odd case of #3, I would put "AS NOTED".

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I would suggest that rather than AS NOTED it place a user definable text string. AS NOTED could be the default, but make it changeable to be as flexible as possible.

 

1 & 2 sound good.

 

3 would be the same as 1.

 

Thanks for asking for input.

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8 minutes ago, Pat Stanford said:

I would suggest that rather than AS NOTED it place a user definable text string. AS NOTED could be the default, but make it changeable to be as flexible as possible.

 

1 & 2 sound good.

 

3 would be the same as 1.

 

Thanks for asking for input.

 

Yes to all of that!  thanks for working on this!!  I have always said VW has the best tech support, you have always been there when I have had to call in a problem.  It's nice to see this being addressed to.

 

Thanks again

Martin

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3 hours ago, Pat Stanford said:

I would suggest that rather than AS NOTED it place a user definable text string. AS NOTED could be the default, but make it changeable to be as flexible as possible.

 

Agreed. I'm sure there are folks who'd feel strongly about "AS NOTED" vs "As Noted" - plus I've seen plenty of variations such as "As Indicated."

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I disagree.  ;-)

 

Having something that you have to change EVERY time because it does not match my personal preferences is one of the biggest downsides to VW. If you pick AS NOTED and I want As Noted, I should not have to edit it every time. Especially if it is something that is going to get added automatically and possibly not caught. 

 

Please just add another field for Default Multiple Scale Text. Use that when you need to add text. We can set it as part of the TBB Style and forget it and still get what each user wants.

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And not to pile on myself, and I don't mean to attack Nikolay, but it is exactly this kind of "I am not a user, but I think this is a good enough" solution that generates the type of anger and posts about VW not employing any architects or other who actually use the product. 

 

See the following thread, and especially the linked post.

 

VW needs to go one step beyond good enough to look at what is best for the users, not just what the marketing specification for a task is. Too few people are involved in the generation of the tasks (in my not so humble opinion) and it results in too many features that are not quite able to do what they need to do.

 

It is little items like this that delight the user and make them love the product. Or suffer by and hope for something better.

 

/rant

 

Sorry about the rant, but I have had a huge discussion of features on a different project I am working on. Always hard to decide where to draw the line, but the user should always win.

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Hello @Pat Stanford,

 

I understand your concern but it seems very excessive to add a new special field only for this default value that will be usually set only once. I suggest the following:

 

If we are in case 1 or 3 a dialog will be displayed to set the default value of the Scale in this case. This dialog will have the option to be never shown again.

 

image.png

 

I think that this is a better solution than one more default field in the TBB Data. Let me know if you disagree.

 

On 4/30/2020 at 8:30 PM, Pat Stanford said:

VW needs to go one step beyond good enough to look at what is best for the users, not just what the marketing specification for a task is. Too few people are involved in the generation of the tasks (in my not so humble opinion) and it results in too many features that are not quite able to do what they need to do.

- I think that this and similar threads show that we take in account the user opinion and feedback and try to improve based on that.

 

 

Best Regards,

Nikolay Zhelyazkov

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