VW 2020 Tool Icons

[MartinFahrer]

2 minutes ago, tshelton said:

@MartinFahrer The funny thing about that screenshot you posted, is that those icons are all the new icons, but they look a lot better because the unselected ones have been grayed out and only the selected one is colored. I think this could be a really easy fix and would look great reversed on a dark background as well.

 

Wow you are right I just noticed that.  

[Kevin McAllister]

Its with conversations like this that I really miss JimW. @JuanP we're missing a NV voice in this particular thread.....

 

Kevin

 

[Mitchell (the other one)]

42 minutes ago, SeanOSkea said:

Where is that first icon on my toolset?  Do I click it and lunch is delivered?

[JuanP]

@Kevin McAllister We are following this thread closely and taking notes. It is undeniable that we need to improve the tool icons. I will work with the R&D team to see what will be the best way to incorporate the feedback provided in this thread. Stay tuned! and thank you all for all your comments this is good info!

[jbtroost]

Iconpacks are not a solution but a gimmick. Anyone remembering Kaleidoscope from the old days? This was a control panel on the Mac (pre OSX) where you could change the overall look of fonts & icons. 
 

If we all like the icons from the marketing promos that much, why not have them make the one set for R&D we all seem to favor over this early try on the new GUI?

[mike m oz]

The icons people are admiring are all on a white background.  ie. 'light mode'.

 

The current icon problem only exists because some users wanted a 'dark mode' and getting a single set of icons that works well for both appears to have been nigh on impossible.  

 

A better option may have been to have two complete sets of icons.  The 2019 ones for 'light mode' and new ones for the 'dark mode' that a few wanted.

[Tanner Shelton]

@mike m oz I think dark mode will be really popular honestly (Especially with the adoption that everyone has been giving it with every other program/phones/OS) And not to mention that almost every other 3D program has a dark UI. But having both options for a light and dark mode would be essential. So hopefully they would be able to design an icon set that is built to easily be modified to fit a light or dark UI.

 

@JuanP It might also be a good idea to open up a public beta of a UI redesign to be able to get lots of user feedback as you modify it. That happened with Blender 2.8, and it's interesting to see how the UI changed through the iterations. They overhauled it a few times in the course of production based on feedback and usability until they found something that fit the best and people were happy with. This would give the developers a chance to do something crazy and really mix it up and see what sticks.

Edited December 13, 2019 by Tanner Shelton
Clarification

[mike m oz]

I've seen what Archicad has done to its icons and its appearance is now worse than the crudest efforts that existed when CAD first started.  

[khumenny]

I agree with the comments, the new icons are very cartoony and bloated. The whole idea with icons is to have recognizability and now I'm searching for tools even though they're in the exact same position.

At first launch of 2020 I actually thought my monitor had switched to a lower resolution.

Definitely a big visual step backwards.

[digitalcarbon]

4 minutes ago, khumenny said:

now I'm searching for tools even though they're in the exact same position.

 

EXACTLY WHAT I EXPERIENCED...did not anyone at VW notice this during testing? My mind is boggled...

[RussU]

2 hours ago, khumenny said:

I actually thought my monitor had switched to a lower resolution

I've noticed that a lot of packages now have a UI scaling feature in their preferences.

While I like my icons small, to free up space, I know that others like larger ones. My colleague scales to 200% size on his 4k monitor.
Maybe I just havn't found it yet, but I don't think vw allows ui scale?

[MartinFahrer]

So I’m teaching a masters workshop in TV and Film design NCSA and asked the masters degree students what they thought of VW 2020 without mentioning the UI or this thread.  Not one of them liked it. I was even asked “what was up with the cartoon icons.”  I asked if any one of them used “Mac Dark” and not one of them did.
 

Makes me wonder who on the UI team is enamored with Mac dark, and did VW shoot themselves in the foot ignoring 3/4 of the users (pc dark, pc light, and Mac light) just to cater to the shines new product in the room “Mac dark”. 
 

makes no sense.  
 

listen to the future pro users to please. 

Edited December 18, 2019 by MartinFahrer

[Diego - Resuelvector]

I understand updating the icons to the Dark Mode, thus this is the first iteration of the icons, but I still think we have 3 elephants in the room, Walls, Win/Door and Stairs that need to be fixed/updated/improved besides the icons and the GUI, if a tool does not keep up/surpasses the competition a nice looking icon won't be a improvement at all...

Edited January 17, 2020 by Diego-Resuelvectorworks

[MartinFahrer]

Don't reall use those, I tend to make everything custom.  But I need my drawings to look realistic and have all the molding details that no cad program really deals with.

[Kees W]

For me it's quite simple, I take pride in my own professionalism, and the tools I use should reflect that. The new icons are clearly a step backward in that regard.

This is both because they look like SketchUp are some other tool less geared towards professional use, and because they are much harder to distinguish and thus less functional.

 

Silly as it may sound, it still annoys me a little on a daily basis, and I just don't need that kind of distraction from a tool that I otherwise hold in high regard.

And, yes, I am on a Mac, and no, I will not be using dark mode

[MartinFahrer]

13 hours ago, Kees W said:

Silly as it may sound, it still annoys me a little on a daily basis, and I just don't need that kind of distraction from a tool that I otherwise hold in high regard.

And, yes, I am on a Mac, and no, I will not be using dark mode

 

Still annoys me too, but I have customized my tools so there aren't so many.  If I had real confidence I would just turn them all of and use short cuts.  Alas sometimes I forget the short cut.

 

[Jim Smith]

We have VW 2020, and were going to do the change just as our office started working remotely. One of my colleagues is working on a new project and decided to install 2020. He called me in a panic asking if there was a fix the icons as he was embarrassed after the client's comments looking at his screen on a remote viewing app.  I happened upon this thread and it seems as if there isn't yet a fix to the Cartoon issue. 

Sigh.

I second @Kees W & @MartinFahrer PoV. I'm an old enough bunny to remember my first "CAD" programme with a black screen & green lines so I'm congenitally opposed to "Dark Mode". 

So moral of the story is skip installing VW2020 & hope for a fix in 2021? So why am I paying for VW every year if I have to skip interactions that we purchase & never install? Ended up doing this with VW2015, and at least one other iteration prior to that.  

 

Edit:

I forgot to mention that my colleague has had to save the file as a VW 2019 file to go back to working in 2019. Never a good work flow in my experience. 

Edited May 20, 2020 by Jim Smith

[VE4]

Piling on.. Just installed 2020 and holy crap these icons look bad; I feel like I'm drawing in a Disney program. Have been using (and paying) for VW designer suite since 2006 and the GUI looks worse now than it did then. I do love the quality of the drawings and elegance of the software under the hood, but please do fix or at least give the option to revert to legacy icons (GUI) that don't look like my toddlers' toys. 

 

Imho it would be better to dedicate resources to fixing actual bugs (i.e. textures that don't map/align correctly when simply changing a wall style or objects disappearing when in a group in annotations or....... as opposed to making new kitschy, cuddly little icons every year. Yes, this is a lame first post.

[MartinFahrer]

I was taking the Core concepts class just to keep my skills up in VW, they were using the 2019 version.  Sigh I forgot how professional the program looked back then compared to the cartoon icons we have to deal with right now.  Glad I don't have to show anything on zoom.

 

@JuanP  - Are you guys working on this?  Can we get it fixed before we are going to go back to work virtually in the fall

[JuanP]

@MartinFahrer 

1 hour ago, MartinFahrer said:

Are you guys working on this? 

The answer is yes, we are on the design process that will begin to define the roadmap. We have heard about the dissatisfaction with the new icons in 2020; please keep in mind that it was the first interaction to support the legibility and usability of Vectorworks in Dark Mode. I have had conversations with our R&D team leaders, and we are hoping to improve the look of the whole UI soon. Unfortunately, it will not be for version 2021. I will keep you posted on any changes to this task.

[Jim Smith]

Maybe these guys could help

🤪

 

 

[Jim Smith]

@JuanP I get that this is an iterative process & I have no idea what's involved in getting under the hood to fix this. But from you comment, it sounds like VW can't "Just turn the old icons back on" for at least two more versions. Do I have that correct?  

[E|FA]

@JuanP I'm curious if VW has any data on user dissatisfaction with the lack of dark mode in 2019 (Mac only) vs user dissatisfaction with the new GUI.  Did VW do any outreach to users regarding the new icons before committing to the changes?  

 

Thanks for the updates and keeping an eye on this thread.

[MartinFahrer]

16 hours ago, E|FA said:

@JuanP I'm curious if VW has any data on user dissatisfaction with the lack of dark mode in 2019 (Mac only) vs user dissatisfaction with the new GUI.  Did VW do any outreach to users regarding the new icons before committing to the changes?  

 

Thanks for the updates and keeping an eye on this thread.

 

Yes I wonder that too, Why design the interface for 1/3 of the users? Disregarding  Mac Light Mode and PC users? I don't understand the need for icon change just so Mac Dark mode would look good. was there an outcry from Mac dark mode users, or was there one person on the GUI team enamored with Dark Mode?

 

[Kees W]

2 minutes ago, MartinFahrer said:

 

Yes I wonder that too, Why design the interface for 1/3 of the users? Disregarding  Mac Light Mode and PC users? I don't understand the need for icon change just so Mac Dark mode would look good. was there an outcry from Mac dark mode users, or was there one person on the GUI team enamored with Dark Mode?

 

I'm not sure how relevant this is. There's plenty of ways to approach a dark mode icon set. A conscious decision was made to go with the cartoony mess that we ended up with. I just fail to comprehend how this decision is made when I'm assuming you want to be considered a pro tool product.