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NoemiM

3D into 2D issue

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Hi, really struggling with this. 

 

We are now working in 3D - fantastic!-, but the big issue is that once everything has been extruded etc, the 2D looks very different from what we are used to....bringing me to redraw 2D plans AFTER the 3D has been generated just for presentation purposes. A BIG pain and loss of time which I am sure can be avoided but cannot work out how. Have experimented with different renders etc but there must be a function/box/option that I am missing. Can anyone rescue me please?

 

1626608744_Screenshot2019-10-30at15_31_14.thumb.png.c41986231a5eb9116f748b9df8511595.png

2D plan BEFORE 3D

 

1436035479_Screenshot2019-10-30at15_32_22.thumb.png.4707ae12a48697a9d2e6a55c91ddac99.png

3D view (Open GL)

 

 

372051991_Screenshot2019-10-30at15_34_42.thumb.png.7e3dc9d93e5092b1783ae96f881868e4.png

2D top/plan view AFTER 3D 

 

1663126807_Screenshot2019-10-30at15_35_23.thumb.png.626a18f56c31e7ed794a270d4b5451b5.png

2D top view (open GL) after 3D 

 

 

Edited by NoemiM

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My approach to this issue has always been to use Hybrid Symbols.  You can look at AutoHybrids in the Help section as well, but I prefer to control the 2D properties myself.

 

e.

 

 

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1 hour ago, EAlexander said:

My approach to this issue has always been to use Hybrid Symbols.  You can look at AutoHybrids in the Help section as well, but I prefer to control the 2D properties myself.

 

e.

 

 

I'd like to follow on to @EAlexander's point about Autohybrids. I use them fairly frequently for simpler 3D objects. Making an AutoHybrid from mesh or complicated objects leads to heartache & pain. Best to create one's own.I note in your lovely 2d render above you've used transparency for the tree objects, not sure how or if that's possible in AutoHybrid-land, or even in handmade Hybrid-land

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Just to follow up on @mjms post - yes, when you make Hybrid symbols, you can use opacity on the 2d data without affecting the 3D.  I do it all the time.

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I believe the main issue being displayed here is between image 1 and 3 (correct me if I’m wrong). This isn’t something that I have seen in my experience in 2020 so far.

 

Have you noticed this between different documents or only this one specifically?

Does this occur every time after swapping from 2D to 3D and then back to 2D?

Have you found any way of temporarily fixing it (such as zooming or adjusting visibilities)? Does it require a close and open of the file to fix it?

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First of all, thank you all so much for your help. 

I really appreciated the mention of Hybrid Symbols (something we never used before), and the very informative video. But if this is the only solution, I think there is extra unnecessary work involved. 
 

@EAlexander, in the video you mention that you used to have separate 2D and 3D plans (as we currently do) and the pain of having to change everything twice (on the 2D and 3D plan), with an increased chance of mistakes. Autohybrids seem only a partial solution to me, in terms that one still has to redraw things twice (the 2D on top of the 3D), which to me seems a waste of time and resources. Towards the end of the video, you also warn that when changing one of the components of the hybrid symbol -i.e. the 2D part-, you also have to remember to change the 3D; otherwise they will not match.
 

It would be great to draw in 2D, extrude and apply textures in 3D, and still be able to retain the 2D looks of objects without having to redraw them (whether as part of the hybrid symbol or in a separate plan)
 

I can see this as a very beneficial thing to add to the wishlist @Tamsin Slatter . What do you think? 

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On 10/30/2019 at 6:53 PM, ASagatovVW said:

I believe the main issue being displayed here is between image 1 and 3 (correct me if I’m wrong). This isn’t something that I have seen in my experience in 2020 so far.

 

Have you noticed this between different documents or only this one specifically?

Does this occur every time after swapping from 2D to 3D and then back to 2D?

Have you found any way of temporarily fixing it (such as zooming or adjusting visibilities)? Does it require a close and open of the file to fix it?

 

@ASagatovVW Correct, main issue is between pic 1 and 3. Some different classes were switched on/off (trees, water feature, plants) between the 2, but I hope the screenshots still make the points. Colour seems to disappear in 2D once you turn it into 3D. Unless I have it in open GL top view which we don't really like. Or do extra work such the above mentioned hybrid symbols.
 

This is our third project/document in 3D and we had the same 2D/3D issue with all three of them. Yes, it happens all the time we go from 2D to 3D and then 2D again (for presentation purposes), and I have found no temporary way to fix it, nor closing/opening the file makes any difference.

It is frustrating but knowing how fab the VWS team is, I am also very optimistic 😄😄

 

Edited by NoemiM

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@NoemiMHi, this wideo shows you how to use AutoHydris in real projects.

HTH

 

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3d objects do not "hold" a fill when viewed in wireframe, hence your issue when viewing in 2d/Plan.  The work around to this is to create the 2d/3d hybrid object as others have talked about doing.  Whether you build in 3d or 2d first makes no real difference,  if you are going to show both 2d plans and 3d views you need to create both at some point in time.  VW comes stocked with lots of off the shelf hybrid objects, whether they be parametric (like a door object or a wall) or just a premade hybrid symbol (that you can find in resource libraries).  If it is not a stock object you must create it yourself.  

My workflow is to create in 3d first, then build the 2d portions by turning the 3d into auto hybrids and making adjustments as I go along.  Since everything gets nested inside symbols anyway, I have more freedom to build better representations in 2d.  So the end result looks like this:

 

2d/3d symbol=

2d portion contains

-2d specific geometry (text/markers) +2d portions of autohybrid 

3d portion contains

-3d portions of autohybrid (all 2d specific geometry is hidden when viewed in 3d).

 

You might do the reverse, building in 2d first and then putting in the 3d.  

 

Also you could try assigning class fills and pen color/styles to your 2d class.  So in the case of your hedge, you can assign the hedge to a class: Box Hedge.  This box hedge can have a line color (dk green) and textures, and then you can activate them via the autohybrid dialog.  I've enclosed a hedge here (I'm no landscape designer, excuse my primitive hedge!)

 

 

 

 

box hedge.vwx

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Keep in mind that hybrid symbol and Auto hybrid are two different things. Hybrid, you have to draw the 2D manually. Auto hybrid will draw the 2D for you automatically, but you can only control the appearance/attributes via classes. It's up to you which makes more sense for your workflow. 

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Based on your original screenshots, I thought there were objects completely not appearing and changing fills. Now that I have seen your follow up video, I agree with what others are stating. Autohybrids or 2D/3D symbols would be the best ways of accomplishing this. (I personally prefer going the symbol route, but its up to you)

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Thanks everybody for their input!
 

@EAlexander,  thanks for clarifying it!! Had missed the difference between the two. Your comment and this -->  http://app-help.vectorworks.net/2018/eng/VW2018_Guide/Shapes3/Creating_Auto_Hybrid_Objects.htm made it clear.

 

@ASagatovVW would love to know what makes you prefer hybrid symbols over Autohybrids before I dive into them


@grant_PD Thanks for mentioning the classes. We do have developed over time our 'company' classes to make sure that the plans have consistent colours palettes regardless of who is drawing. I hope to be able to keep using these with the hybrid symbols. Will need a bit time to explore! 

Edited by NoemiM

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In many ways, the two options can overlap. As an example, if you convert your 3D object into an AutoHybrid and then make a symbol out of that. you end up with a 2D/3D symbol automatically.

 

I always like having as much control over my objects as possible. If it is an object I plan to use in the future, I always try to make a 2D/3D symbol with a completely separate 2D and 3D component. This allows me to individually class parts and make certain details I want. If I am working in a file and need a quick 2D representation of a 3D object, autohybrid works perfectly for this. Autohybrid is a faster workflow. Manually doing 2D on top of 3D is more time consuming, but provides more levels of detail if you need it.

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