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BradLyons

MISSING TRUSS in plan view, and graphics issue on edge-blended screen

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I'm a long-time WYSIWYG PERFORM user, where whatever I want to do is quick and simple!  I'm continually frustrated by the constant issues and head-scratchers I'm running into with VW, but as an AVL designer it's become a requirement although I'm kicking and screaming doing it!  My latest ticking me off scenario is I have a large square truss I have configured and installed above a stage that I wanted the rear of it to be lower and the front higher.  In WYG all I do is grab the rotate tool, manually adjust the angle or type in the amount and BOOM---done!  It took me a great deal of time to figure out I have to go into the 3D edit view and do it there, which was simple at that point---but again, it required extra steps.  After doing so, now my fixtures attached all stayed "flat" to the original position, none of them rotated with them.  Additionally when I'm in overhead plan view, it disappears.  But the moment I use the flyover tool to change the view, it shows up just fine.  I deleted the truss and created a new one, SAME PROBLEM! 

 

The creative team programming VW really needs to go use WYG and learn from them!  VW is SO not intuitive!  And you can only display (8) lights at a time in OPEN GL mode???? 

 

Another issue is I used the EDGE-BLENDED screen option and it's incredibly distorted depending on the viewing angle!  When I created my own custom image, there doesn't seem to be FILL SCREEN option like there is in WYG.  

 

 

 

 

Edited by BradLyons
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Hi Brad

 

WYG and VWX are very different tools, I understand your frustrations but I suspect with some training and help from here you will get over it.

 

How are you creating your custom image for the blended screens?

 

Have you created a lighting position form your truss?  I believe if you have, you can no longer rotate on the Z axis as the position contains 2D geometry.  Perhaps this should be a feature request?

 

A work around is to create your truss then with the whole system selected click the 'Draw 3D only' box in the object info palette.  You can now add lights as you would normally and the truss will appear in 2D plan view as a wireframe model like this:

 

1A.thumb.JPG.d28657097e251eae21541cd8b319a507.JPG

 

Now you can view the whole rig from the side and rotate it in the Z axis like this:

 

1B.thumb.JPG.69421254c9bd1cb9bfcfee753f6c9b5d.JPG

 

Thanks to the recently added fixture rotation features they will still appear in 2D plan view as normal which is great for plots and labeling:

 

image.thumb.png.5f1960562ae3807a58aa232e434dc3ad.png

 

Unfortunately if you need to add more fixtures you will need to either adjust their height and rotation manually or adjust your truss back to flat first

 

 

 

Hope this helps

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Mike Wright
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Also take a look at this in V2020.  I'm only just migrating from 2019 and this seems it may solve some of your problems:

 

 

 

 

 

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Brad,

There are some significant differences between WYG and VW. WYG was designed as a visual design tool first and foremost while VW was designed as a drawing program. One of the great features of VW has always been its’ inclusion of hybrid symbols. In other words, a symbol with both 2D, for detailed plan view drawings, and 3D information for various renderings. As far as I know, this feature was unique back in the MiniCad (precursor to VW) days. It allows you to do cool things like insert a motor that in 2D looks like a circle with a cross hair in it and in 3D looks like a hoist with a chain. This a seriously powerful feature.
 

The problem arises when one wants to rotate a 3D object. What is to become of that 2D information when you rotate that truss? Often one ends up with an awful looking wireframe assembly that, in my opinion, is unsuitable for a professional-looking plot. Also, how do your shop personnel determine exactly how to install the system if what they have is an angled, wireframe representation. 
 

There are a few approaches to this. Some have been mentioned. The new “schematic view” in 2020 and the existing “plot and mode  view” are some methods to deal with this. I am currently a proponent of the “design layer viewport” as it offers a ton of flexibility and can be implemented to be a fairly seamless part of your workflow should you desire to delve into it. 
 

In very simple terms one draws a truss and everything associated with it on a dedicated design layer. Once drawn (in straight forward 2D by the way) you create a “viewport” of it and place it on your standard drawing layer. Note that your dedicated truss layer does need to include at least one Spotlight lighting device. Once you have your viewport (which is like a really smart, 3D image of your dedicated layer) you can rotate and move it any way you want to. Any edits you want to make to the truss or objects on it are easily modified in 2D on your dedicated design layer. It allows you to present detailed 2D design plots and accurate 3D elevations and renders. 
 

It all depends on what is important to you. 

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Thank you, the problem is that I need this truss to be angled as that is how it looks in real life, the 3D design needs to match how it will be installed.  So therefore the software should be smart enough to deal with both (WYG is).  I know and get these are two completely different applications, that's the problem. There are things that VW does great that WYG can't do, and there are things that WYG does VW can't do.  The problem for someone like me is I'm doing design AND I'm doing weekly production.  My budget can't handle both.  VISION doesn't look anywhere near as good as WYG, yet I can't justify the cost of WYG PERFORM just for a visualizer if I need VW to do my CAD and ENGINEERING design.  This is why I'm frustrated.  FYI here are the drawings as I have them done so far. 

TOPCI snip 2.PNG

TOPCI snip 1.PNG

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Totally understand. That is why I use design layer viewports. Then I can have that truss displayed properly in 2D for installation purposes (not in wireframe) and 3D for implementation purposes. To my knowledge (and I may be wrong) you cannot do that in Wyg. 

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In WYSIWyG it will display 2D and 3D anything and everything you enter properly in either of those modes.  I just think that if the claim is VECTORWORKS SPOTLIGHT is supposed to be the end-all.....  it's SERIOUSLY lacking in the lighting department.  A major overhaul is needed, and hopefully will come.  While I think VISION ranks the worst quality of the (3) main visualizers (WYSIWYG and CAPTURE) there's so much more reason for promise it can be improved, and implemented within the VW environment. 

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Interesting. So does Wyg redraw 2D geometry for all objects to constrain to the top view while rotated or does it draw the 2D elements flat in plan view and rotated in 3D view? 

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Like Scott said, Design Layer Viewports, Plot and Model View, or the new VWX 2020 Schematic View are all ways to achieve this. Also in VWX 2020 I believe you can rotate any Hybrid Object right in a Design Layer. 

 

As for the lights appearing in OpenGL, VWX is not a visualizer. It's a CAD software for paperwork, schematics, and technical drawings. I would concur that Vision is currently not even comparable to other visualizers. Many people's workflow, including my own is VWX for drawing and then send it over to Cinema4D or GrandMA 3D for some quick OpenGL style renders. 

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I finally accepted the fact that there's NO way that WYSIWYG PERFORM -or- VW SPOTLIGHT can do everything I need to do.  So I just submitted the purchase for CAPTURE QUARTET (visualizer) and will move from the lease option to a full purchase of VW SPOTLIGHT soon.  I was going to purchase CONNECT CAD today, but it won't be compatible with Spotlight 2020 until sometime later in November.  I love WYSIWYG PERFORM, if it's CAD engine was a real CAD engine I would stick with it.  Although my workflow will change a little moving to VW w/CAPTURE that's okay....change isn't always bad. Frankly I wasn't too into Capture at first because I use A LOT of strip lights, and it was bogging it down.  But after some tweaks and adjustments it's pretty killer now.  Since I program from home---having a visualizer is a huge part of what I do. But now that I'm doing more and more consultation, design, and sub-contracting designs for other integration firms....  I need VW.  I'm going to be happy, until the bill comes! LOL

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20 hours ago, stevenmorgan94 said:

 Also in VWX 2020 I believe you can rotate any Hybrid Object right in a Design Layer. 

 

Not sure it's everything

 

Would be interesting to hear what people's experience on this is.  You cannot rotate a video screen object for instance.

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