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Tom Klaber

2021 Architecture Wishlist

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19 hours ago, Matt Overton said:

Certainly getting more and more situations in my work I'd like to be able "paint" sections of wall with a slightly different finish that doesn't otherwise effect the wall/structural type to warrant a full wall type.

 

More and more I'm finding uses for a general sub-style or overlay-style to styled objects that could effect a very limited aspect of an object. Like walls-style to control the all structural aspects of the wall will and Overlay-style applied to part of the wall changes a finish like a panel of different brick.

On most projects we end up using a number of unstyled walls to allow for the odd variation in wall thickness or lining.

When will it be that we can also see the selected cladding or roofing shown in section? eg weatherboard profiles, roofing profiles etc?

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10 hours ago, E|FA said:

@Amorphous - Julian Can you explain what you mean by this?  Thanks.

 

@E|FA When modelling in Vectorworks now, we prefer walls with only one component (instead of walls with attached component which is a hassle to modify).

IE we don't go through the effort of making 'Wall Styles' with a 'core' and different 'finishes component' over them. 

In a shared project file scenario, wall styles is just trouble. Too many permissions issues everytime we want to modify one style. 

 

1557734701_ThreeLayersofWalls1.thumb.png.188f3c4914ddb6040353ce8712719639.png688702736_ThreeLayersofWalls2.thumb.png.faddd16f4d4fa967d678aa2fd357c85a.png

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I'm evolving toward the same approach because of the time/effort I've spent trying to get styled, multi-component walls to clean up properly at intersections and to accommodate the multitude of small variations in wall thicknesses my projects seem to have (lots of old, existing walls).  Could you help me understand three things about this approach:

 

1.   Is this an approach you take for rendering or are you able to use the same model to generate floor plans?

 

2.   How do you handle the physical appearance of the wall in a "Plan" view?  The axonometric sketch in the Wishlist response seemed to have voids within the wall at various intersections.  Do these show up in your plan views or is there some way to suppress/hide that inner linework?

 

3.   Do your wall finishes have real thickness (3-5/8" for brick, 1/4" for ceramic tile, 3/4" for wood, 0.001" for paint, etc) so that the "core" matches up to the structural core plus airspaces or does the finish have a negligible thickness so that it disappears inside the wall line when plotted?

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1 minute ago, CiaMariaPia said:

I'm evolving toward the same approach because of the time/effort I've spent trying to get styled, multi-component walls to clean up properly at intersections and to accommodate the multitude of small variations in wall thicknesses my projects seem to have (lots of old, existing walls).  Could you help me understand three things about this approach:

 

Hi @CiaMariaPia I'm glad that others are seeing similar problems with current Wall Styles. Hope the engineers at Vectorworks take note. 

 

2 minutes ago, CiaMariaPia said:

1.   Is this an approach you take for rendering or are you able to use the same model to generate floor plans?

 

We generate floor plans from this as well. But honestly it gets very messy and cumbersome. Think about how it works around doors and windows. We generally create two empty opening around doors and windows for it to all make sense (one on each side)

Problem arises again when we need to move the doors and windows. It is very slow. 
 

4 minutes ago, CiaMariaPia said:

2.   How do you handle the physical appearance of the wall in a "Plan" view?  The axonometric sketch in the Wishlist response seemed to have voids within the wall at various intersections.  Do these show up in your plan views or is there some way to suppress/hide that inner linework?

 

Very well pointed out. This makes our plan drawings look weird.

 

We'd love to have an approach that balances between 'modelling', 'architectural drawing' and 'rendering'. But this doesn't really exist in VW as it is now. 

There has been other posts that talks about this. In particular about stone/tile/wall joints, I will link them in later. 

As for your question about plan appearance, what we do to suppress it is to cover over it in annotation space. 

 

6 minutes ago, CiaMariaPia said:

3.   Do your wall finishes have real thickness (3-5/8" for brick, 1/4" for ceramic tile, 3/4" for wood, 0.001" for paint, etc) so that the "core" matches up to the structural core plus airspaces or does the finish have a negligible thickness so that it disappears inside the wall line when plotted?

 

Depends at what stage you're talking about. It makes sense at concept stage to just allow for a 50mm finishes zone, which takes care of everything from 'Decorative wall panelling' to 'screed + adhesive + stonework'. 


We control 'renderworks textures' with 'classes'. So by changing the class of an object we can very quickly change the appearance for the purpose of design exploration. A wall with no build-ups makes more sense at this stage. 

 

Later, towards design development, we can then have different wall styles that show the real substrates, material thickness and hatches.

 

IN CONCLUSION

 

Our method is not ideal, it is only to 'work around' the counter-intuitive nature of 'Wall Styles'.

 

Hence, if VW can change how 'Walls' and 'Finishes' works, per post by Tom Klaber and myself, we save ourselves the pain that you pointed out in your three questions. 

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@Amorphous - Julian yikes! so, core wall, 2 finishes, interior & exterior, then 3 empty opening to keep coordinated? i was thinking you might be onto something until I thought of that issue. 😜 Thanks for sharing your techniques though. Always helpful to learn new workflows and incorporate bits and pieces as they fit my needs. 

 

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I rarely have the wall troubles with components as @Amorphous - Julian has above, but I've found solutions most of the time.

 

I'd be happy to have a base component that is part of the wall where I don't have to model a base finish.

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5 minutes ago, leecalisti said:

I'd be happy to have a base component that is part of the wall where I don't have to model a base finish.

This is similar to my preference: A wall style where the "core" thickness is variable - and can be set for each instance - and a "finish" layer on each side of that core that can be a real component (such as brick) or merely a "finish" of negligible thickness (to allow color/texture when rendering).  The inner "core" and each outer layer then join other walls in the conventional VW manner: Cores join together and finish layers can be joined (as appropriate to the two materials) or not by controlling the end caps.  The key element of this is that these walls are all one "style" and the thickness of the core is variable and can be set on-the-fly by just changing the setting in the Object Info pallete.  No need to create and manage multiple wall "styles" to accommodate small thickness variations and the rendering of the wall in plan (especially), section or elevation is simplified because there are fewer elements to control. 

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Perhaps another, more generic way to think of this is to allow wall component thicknesses to be modified directly in the Object Info pallette in much the same way that VW allows elements of doors and windows to be modified in the Object Info pallette without having to create a new window style.  In this way, you could have as many components in your "core" as you wish to suit the needs of the project or your personal preference or to create drawings with a consistent look and feel .... but the outermost layer can still render correctly and simply and the "cores" join up simply and cleanly.

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13 hours ago, Amorphous - Julian said:

IE we don't go through the effort of making 'Wall Styles' with a 'core' and different 'finishes component' over them. 

@Amorphous - Julian Thanks for the explanation.  I do something similar, using wall styles but modeling exterior finish materials (per @Jonathan Pickup).  Most of my wall styles have interior GWB.  If needed, I can model interior finishes over the top, but rarely need to.  

 

 @CiaMariaPia I agree completely.  Being able to change component thicknesses (or at the very least the core thickness) in the OIP would be a huge improvement.

 

@Tom Klaber +1 for your 2021 wishlist.

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6 hours ago, E|FA said:

Most of my wall styles have interior GWB.  If needed, I can model interior finishes over the top

Pretty much what I do - my finishes are usually rectangles drawn over the wall (extruded 1mm if it needs a texture) or part of the wall in automatic plan mode and classed for visibility (on/off) and scheduling if need be.

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If you use the extract tool, you can get a polygon for the face of the building and then extrude that. You can add the groves and joints to it as well. 

I have found that with a few keyboard shortcuts it becomes very quick.

 

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On 9/26/2019 at 9:22 AM, Jonathan Pickup said:

roof coverings that automatically have gutter, downpipes (downspouts) ridges, fasicas, and flashings

 

archicad has had a nice lindab plugin for years - this would be a good start but i agree, having it built in would be great.

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In additions to adding my support - in particular to items 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 10 - in the original post, here are a few other items I've come across lately in my own work or other forum posts:

 

Grid Bubble tool:

  • This should work like grids in a typical architectural drawing set.  Set them once for the project, and they should show up as needed in every sheet view drawings.  If I edit the project gridlines in one location, it should show show up in all other views.  Similarly, the benchmark tool should show veritcal datums across all section & elevation sheets, ideally connected to Stories/Levels.  Am I missing something?        
  • Allow change of line style between the bubble and dimension string

Layer/Class Filters:

  • Allow for manual sort order . 
  • Allow for multiple search criteria (e.g. Class Name contains X and Y) similar to Custom Selection "More Criteria" button.  (Organization->Classes->Manage Filters...)

Script Palettes: Match behavior and allow to dock with other palette.  Allowing icons & interface like Tool Palette/Tool Sets would be a bonus.

 

Default Story Levels window: show default layer heights as another column (Organization->Stories->Default Level Types)
 

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I have 2 suggestions:

1/ Add feature Box mode view, when work with Subdivision tool:

 

2/ Add Gumbal tool, We can quick manipulate Vertex, Edge and Face when work with solid model, and poly.

 

Thank

Travis

 

snip 1.jpg

snip 2.jpg

snip 3.jpg

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7 hours ago, Travis.Designer said:

I have 2 suggestions:

1/ Add feature Box mode view, when work with Subdivision tool:

 

2/ Add Gumbal tool, We can quick manipulate Vertex, Edge and Face when work with solid model, and poly.

 

Thank

Travis

 

snip 1.jpg

snip 2.jpg

snip 3.jpg


There already is a 3D dragger ‘gumball’ that pops up when you are editing points, edges and faces of Subdivision objects (image below from Vw2020 Help). 

image.thumb.png.33e65f9e15443bd252f357540c96279c.png

Vw2020 Help File : Transforming a Subdivision Model

 

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35 minutes ago, rDesign said:


There already is a 3D dragger ‘gumball’ that pops up when you are editing points, edges and faces of Subdivision objects (image below from Vw2020 Help). 

image.thumb.png.33e65f9e15443bd252f357540c96279c.png

Vw2020 Help File : Transforming a Subdivision Model

 

Hi 

yes they have this feature in Subdivision mode. It only show when edit Subdivision. As I mentioned, I suggest this feature  will affect to solid, surface and control point.

Edited by Travis.Designer
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54 minutes ago, Travis.Designer said:

Hi 

yes they have this feature in Subdivision mode. It only show when edit Subdivision. As I mentioned, I suggest this feature  will affect to solid, surface and control point.


I see - in that case, if you’re requesting the 3D dragger ‘gumball’ be available to all other 3D operations, there already is a now 4-year-old Wish List request for that functionality. Please follow the link below and go upvote it if you haven’t already. Thanks.

 

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4 hours ago, rDesign said:

I see - in that case, if you’re requesting the 3D dragger ‘gumball’ be available to all other 3D operations,

 

 

Like many of us already did(!),

at the time when first SubD Tool was released many years ago ....

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On 9/16/2019 at 9:28 AM, Tom Klaber said:

7) New GUI - let's be honest - the new icons are not great and seemed rushed just to allow dark mode.  I would be fine with the GUI you show in the promo videos.  Just implement that.  You have already designed it!  The icons are cleaner - the dialogs are cleaner - nothing fancy - it just feels on-purpose. 

 

I hope a professional icon theme is on the list. 

The 2020 theme was a huge dud. Sorry to say. Really am.

Every time I open VW2020, I sigh. 

With a new release in a couple of months, I'm really looking forward to seeing an icon theme worthy of the application.

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On 8/6/2020 at 9:48 PM, Clint Alderman said:

 

I hope a professional icon theme is on the list. 

The 2020 theme was a huge dud. Sorry to say. Really am.

Every time I open VW2020, I sigh. 

With a new release in a couple of months, I'm really looking forward to seeing an icon theme worthy of the application.

 

I have been using it since day 1 - I did not like the new icons - but figured I would get used to them.  I have not. They do not register - this sea of brown that simultaneously has too much detail but are too abstract - I can find myself stairing at the sea of brown looking for the door for a 30 seconds before I am able to decipher. 

 

 

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Very longtime user here...

I fully agree with the contention that the icons in 2020 are a serious drag on productivity.. one can only hope that this will be remedied.. undoubtedly, 2021 is pretty frozen in terms of features.. I guess we’ll see very soon..

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