Jump to content

Power distro symbols


Lec

Recommended Posts

OK so I'm on to VW 2020 and still there are no symbols for making power distros - is it too much to ask that VW comes up with an adaptable symbol which you can specify the inputs and outputs so production electricians can create power schematics for shows. Unless I'm missing something in which case please let me know...:)

Link to comment
On 9/12/2019 at 8:04 AM, Rob Books said:

Unfortunately, it does not exist.  I just checked our files.

Well I know in the MEP tools there is receptacle tools and circuit planning tools that include the imperial symbols. These would be immensely helpful for AVL and to have in spotlight. Seems not fair to not have those in spotlight when they are SO important for the entertainment industry.

Link to comment

Hi there, ideally you would have a symbol similar to that of a lighting fixture - only its shape would be a simple rectangle in 2d and cuboid in 3d. The idea would be to double click on it as you would a lighting fixture and then you input information such as power input (Powerlok, 63A 3phase Ceeform, 125A Ceeform etc) and the types of power outputs (16A single, 32A 3phase etc etc). It would simply represent schematically what sort of distros you are using on your event so crew can see on a plan what mains distros go where. If possible it would also calculate phase loading if you had the ability to tell it what multicore (socapex) were plugged into where. It just seems a pity that you can stipulate almost every known possibility for a generic light such as beam angle, shutters gobos, circuit way, address, unit number etc, but there is nothing as useful for mains distros which are just as important a part of any rig for a production electrician. Too often I see Vectorworks pandering towards the needs of US theatre designers with little or no support for the rest of us who work in the corporate sector all over the world. We need better service for the vast amount of money we spend on VSS.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
30 minutes ago, Lec said:

Hi there, ideally you would have a symbol similar to that of a lighting fixture - only its shape would be a simple rectangle in 2d and cuboid in 3d. The idea would be to double click on it as you would a lighting fixture and then you input information such as power input (Powerlok, 63A 3phase Ceeform, 125A Ceeform etc) and the types of power outputs (16A single, 32A 3phase etc etc). It would simply represent schematically what sort of distros you are using on your event so crew can see on a plan what mains distros go where. If possible it would also calculate phase loading if you had the ability to tell it what multicore (socapex) were plugged into where. It just seems a pity that you can stipulate almost every known possibility for a generic light such as beam angle, shutters gobos, circuit way, address, unit number etc, but there is nothing as useful for mains distros which are just as important a part of any rig for a production electrician. Too often I see Vectorworks pandering towards the needs of US theatre designers with little or no support for the rest of us who work in the corporate sector all over the world. We need better service for the vast amount of money we spend on VSS.

 

A friend of mine is working on a Mac application that does exactly what you described above. Except for the fact that it is an external app. 

 

So far I have used excel to make my dimmer and PSU sheets and spend ages on macro’s for automation of the process. This did result in a fast workflow. 

 

Ofcourse it would be magnificent if it where built into VWX. But if it does what you need fats and effective then that’s great too isn’t it? 

Link to comment

Lightwright can do the work you're looking for minus the graphical part, and it integrates with Vectorworks. It's a staple of my workflow as a production electrician and designer in theatre, concert touring, and corporate work. I use it to assign dimmers, circuits, and addresses, and it does all my load calculations. That's really scratching the surface of what it can do.

Link to comment

Andy calls, and here I am.

First, yes, Lightwright does a fantastic job of power management.

Second, ConnectCAD is a gorgeous suite of tools, but we have yet to see what it will cost, and how that will amortize over hours you save.

As for VW, there are questions and issues.

Do you want to put Power Distros (PDs) on the drawing?

     What should they look like?  Should that change between different PDs?  Based on what?

     Is directionality of the graphic important?

     Do you have the drawing real estate to handle placing PD graphics?

          You can always hide them on a layer and have special views.  Gonna do that?

The big one.  I assume that you would want the PD object to carry information.  What information should each PD hold?

What do you want to do with that info?  Do you want to collect more than the number of each kind of PD?  What kind of reports, if any, would you want from VW.

Understand that PDs in VW would not interact with LW the way lights do unless John McKernon and VW put there heads together, do some work and make it so.  I think coordination of LW and VW with both PDs and cable will probably not be a part of any update for LW 6, but I'm not in that club.  As for LW 7, I know John has a list, but he also has 2 dogs, a farm, and other things to do with his time.

Are PDs different from dimmer racks?  How?  (besides not dimming)  Should dimmer racks be considered PDs and just lump them all together?

PDs have a direct effect on cable layouts and requirements, so having some kind of PD display and record keeping will be a part of cable planning and management.  I am planning on adding PDs to my set of cable tools, but I need to answer the above questions.  Also, ConnectCAD may or may not interface with VW cable tools or my cable tools.  I will need to see something of ConnectCAD in more detail before putting in the effort to develop PDs.  Also, there are several other projects to work on in my cable tools, like creating accurate box contents reports, so the time table for PDs will be in some flux.

All of this does not help you get the job done right now, but the specificity with which you answer those questions will give you 2 paths to the future.

     One, the development of your own symbols with records to hold info.

     Two, providing me with info to create intelligent objects to get the job done.

BTW, No, I do not spend all my time sitting in front of my computer making VW plug-ins, I have a 13 hour call tomorrow, and the wife is painting the condo.  The other 3rd party heavy hitters, Andy and Josh, have similar or greater obligations.  But then you were hoping the VW mothership would get it done.  Maybe, but records, worksheets, and vectorscript are the greatest boons to entertainment CAD since the pencil.  

 

Sam

 

  • Like 4
Link to comment

Hey Sam, thanks for your in-depth reply - I guess it opens up a whole new can of worms when you think about intelligent symbols as most lighting hire companies have their own bespoke power distros  and therefore creating a generic symbol might be difficult. However if it were possible you would start with a simple rectangular shape and by clicking on it (as you would a lighting symbol) you would input whatever data you needed like what sort of input it had, the kind of rcb/mcb/rcbo and if they had variable trips on them - that sort of thing. Then you would specify the outputs - socapex/16A/32A/63A/True1 whatever the rack had you were using from the hire company. So now you have a custom built PD of whatever size you need. The tricky bit then would be to attach the lamp information (wattage, circuit number on the socapex etc) to the PD so you could see on a chart or info pane of some kind the loading and phase distribution on that PD. Then by adding more PDs you could see the total load on your main power from your venue or generators.

I guess what I'm trying to avoid is using 3rd party plugins such as Lightwrite when VW seems to use a lot of the tech already with its lighting symbols and if it just had a custom PD symbol and yes maybe a custom dimmer rack symbol too then it keeps everything neatly inside VW. Braceworks for example can draw truss, calculate loads and do all sorts of fun things. It's just a pity that Spotlight falls a bit short in the production side of things - there's no flow from drawing your plot initially to ending it with a nice clear chart of what's going on where. Sure, you can plug into Vision and pre-vis your show but there just seems to be a gap for production electricians who need to see a show through from the primary source of power through to the lighting fixture/video wall etc without having to use a 3rd party plugin.

 

Lec.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
On 9/21/2019 at 4:09 AM, Lec said:

It's just a pity that Spotlight falls a bit short in the production side of things - there's no flow from drawing your plot initially to ending it with a nice clear chart of what's going on where. Sure, you can plug into Vision and pre-vis your show but there just seems to be a gap for production electricians who need to see a show through from the primary source of power through to the lighting fixture/video wall etc without having to use a 3rd party plugin.

 

And yet Spotlight is the CAD application that comes closest.  This is why it is the industry standard.  The adoption of 3rd party solutions helps VW determine industry needs.  Hoists, Video Screens, an cables tools all started as 3rd party solutions, and even today they are being enhanced by their 3rd party developers.  VW is not just Spotlight, so they have a lot of fish to fry that don't come out of the entertainment ocean.

Excuse the rant, but you are not the only one I have heard from that don't want to use 3rd party products and think VW should be all the industry tool that they want it to be.  Well, asking VW to continually improve and add the tools that the industry needs is a good thing, but avoiding the use of 3rd party tools severely limits you in improving your work flow.  I have heard from 3rd part tool users how the 3rd party tools literally, yes I mean "literally", cut the time it took to do a task from 3 days to 4 hours.  Do what you will.  There are many simple things that Spotlight does not yet do, that it will in the future, and many of those are done by 3rd party tools now.  The single capability in VW that has had the most value for entertainment industry users is the existence of vectorscript.

  • Like 3
Link to comment

I think you misunderstand what I'm saying here - I'm not against 3rd party plugins - I have the Landru Designs Producers Pack and it's great - all I'm saying is that with all the amazing new features architects get time and time again with Vectorworks updates it would be nice if the slightly poorer cousin Spotlight could benefit too from some reasonably simple and ultimately useful tools. No need to rant. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment

 

1 hour ago, Lec said:

new features architects get time and time again with Vectorworks updates it would be nice if the slightly poorer cousin Spotlight could benefit too from some reasonably simple and ultimately useful tools.

 

Architects make the same complaints, about Spotlight and the very special Lighting Device Object

      Not to mention Vision, Braceworks, and ConnectCAD.

Landscape artists make the same complaints

Don't even bring up the subject with plumbing and air conditioning designer/engineers

 

The Producers Pack is very cool isn't it..

 

Sam

 

  • Like 3
Link to comment

Interesting to see the direction this thread headed...

 

A few comments regarding the "3rd-Party" part of the conversation:

1)  I well understand Lec's concern about an apprarent need (to him) that is not being met by the stock VW packages.  I've been there so many times that I've lost count.

2)  Sam is quite right about the breadth of disciplines VW covers.  VW leadership has to make daily decisions about where to apply resources and about which features (or, approaches to implenenting features) fit or don't fit defined conventions.  Along w. that, it CAN be quite frsutrating to see another industry getting love when one's own is seemingly getting ignored.  The evidence is that, using Spotlight as an example, users from that area aren't really "poorer stepchildren" when one considers all of the specific effort that has been applied, there, recently.  The catch is that, within the microcosm of Spotlight, the decisions I just mentioned have to be taken...

3)  Echoing Sam, this is where the beauty of having 3 different options for developing proprietary or 3rd-Party solutions lies:
· Very focused or customised commands and tools can be created.
· Potential needs can be explored in a way that could be difficult under the corporate umbrella.
· Likewise, other approaches/conventions can be explored in a way that could be challenging under the corporate umbrella.
· Intimate interraction with developers is more possible for more users.
· Many developers are creating solutions that they need in their own day-to-day "other" jobs - using approaches and conventions that "think" like they do...that fill sometimes difficult-to-articulate needs...approaches and needs that can be incredibly hard to understand if one is not really immersed in a given discipline.
· Faster turn-around on enhancements and fixes is often possible.
· Commands and tools are seldom tied to a specific VW package.

4)  While this might sound self-serving for me to say, I'm with Sam in being quite surprised at the hesitation of a lot of users to take advantage of 3rd-Party commands and tools - some at little to no cost.  Yes, there is risk involved.  Is there any actual support?  Will the command or tool be available in a month?  Does the command or tool follow official conventions?  I've found so much value in 3rd-Party offerings that those risks are more than acceptable.  And, the more I invest in other developers, the more incentive they have to continue their work...

  • Like 1
Link to comment

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...