Simulating lasers

[fuberator]

Hi

 

I know vision has no support for lasers, but in this case I have a static beam hitting a mirror. I was hoping to simulate this beam coming on by adding a geometric object and controlling its visibility. It only needs to be there, or not be there. Or perhaps create two simple fixtures with a green narrow beam, one at the origin and one at the mirror.

 

Later I would replace this with a real laser on a relay.

 

Looking for ideas....

 

Cheerio

[bbudzon]

Very cool you're looking into this! One thing you may not have known (and may not be applicable in this case) is: just like you can use an image on your desktop for a gobo, you can actually use a video file as well. This can achieve some really cool projector/laser like effects. You're on the right track using a second light at the mirror to simulate the "bounce". My suggestion for controlling whether or not the beam is "on" is to simply use the dimmer channel. You could even patch both lights (the real light and the one at the mirror) to the same uni/chan so that they respond to DMX the same way 😉

 

Hope this helps and interested to see how far you get with this POC laser in Vision! (I've done this myself btw and gotten some pretty good results!)

[fuberator]

hi

 

Indeed, having the effect on a dimmer channel in the desk would make it actually useful. I can make the cues and just patch in a relay/dimmer pack in its stead.

I would want to make a very small geometry that uses a needlepoint gobo. Is it possible to make a fixture request for this or is it too niche?

 

Otherwise was thinking to modify an etc source 4. It has the right gobo setup, and I would just replace the geometry with a locus. Is this the way, or should I start from scratch?

[bbudzon]

You're on the right track! Use a needlepoint gobo for sure. I'd also recommend picking a fixture with a very tight beam/field angle as this (in combination with the needle point gobo) will give you the most realistic result. (And even if you don't need to, try a video file in a S4 gobo sometime, it's really cool!!)

 

It's a little complicated changing geometry of a fixture like you're suggesting, though. You can do it, but it won't get saved off in the file as Vision doesn't expect anyone to modify the fixture content like that. So, you'd have to do it every time you opened the file. Instead, my suggestion (if at all tolerable) is to simply turn off the rendering of all fixtures in your application settings. Unfortunately, this can't be done at a per fixture level and it is only a global setting for the entire document (something we are looking into). Fortunately, this drastically increases performance in Vision 2019 as well.

 

This may be too specific of a request for @Mark Eli, but I'll tie him in just in case. We have some generic emissive spheres but they only glow (they don't emit light). Perhaps it would be good for us to have some generic no-geometry beam-fixtures for users to play around with when "hacking" up Vision to do cool/clever things like this 😄 The other example I had that came up with was creating a make-shift desk lamp in Vision. Having a "no-geometry beam-fixture" would be incredibly helpful in this case!

Edited July 9, 2019 by bbudzon
grammar

[mjm]

5 hours ago, bbudzon said:

(And even if you don't need to, try a video file in a S4 gobo sometime, it's really cool!!)

@bbudzon Cool. Can you provide steps, tips in order execute video-as-gobo? Mind you, I don't yet use Vision, so hoping your tip works in RW as well…

 

TiA,

MichaelM

Edited July 9, 2019 by mjm

[bbudzon]

43 minutes ago, mjm said:

Mind you, I don't yet use Vision, so hoping your tip works in RW as well…

 

Sorry, this is specific to the Vision application 😞

 

 

43 minutes ago, mjm said:

Can you provide steps, tips in order execute video-as-gobo?

 

I just tried it in Vision 2019 and an optimization we made to Gobo/Color/Animation Wheels broke it! (It did work in Vision 2018, however.) This is why it was never a documented feature 😛

 

I do think I might know a way we can get it working again, but the reason is broke it was because what we were doing before was very VERY bad for performance. Optimizing the wheels so they only updated when necessary was critical to the performance increases you see with Vision 2019. We may still be able to special case this without hurting performance too bad 🙂 I'll have to dig in the code and see what we might be able to do. Then maybe we can support it for real and we can document it as an actual feature! 🤣

 

 

Nevertheless, for a static laser like the OP is trying to do, a pinhole gobo will still do the trick 😉

[fuberator]

Hi @bbudzon

 

I dont want to turn off my fixtures in vision, so my only option is to create a fixture with infinitely small geometry (or just locus) with a narrow beam or gobo.

Would you have any ideas where to start with such an undertaking. I have never built a fixture before

 

Cheers!

[bbudzon]

Now that we have some customers attempting to do this, I will bring this use case up in our meeting. I'm going to ping @Mark Eli again as he is the one that makes fixtures for Vision. Unfortunately, Vision does not have a way to create/import custom fixtures. We are working on GDTF support in Vision such that you could create a fixture using the GDTF Fixture Builder, but that is not currently implemented.

 

Hopefully, we can put a fixture in the Vision library for you and you can just fetch the content update and use the fixture we've created for you. Otherwise, the best option in your case may be to simply delete the MeshShapes inside of the specific fixture you want to have no geometry. This will not store off in the v3s which is a pain 😞

 

This also reminds me of a few other "features" that were considered but never implemented... perhaps I can bring these up in our meeting as well. One such feature was the ability to turn off geometry for a fixture at the fixture level (instead of at the global level). Other features that we may need to consider more seriously is the ability to control whether or not lights cast shadows at a fixture level (instead of at the global level).

 

I'm sorry that this workflow isn't the best but you are in uncharted territory hahahah! I'll go with you where no man has gone before, but it may be a rough ride... which isn't to say we can't make this easier in a future release!!

[fuberator]

 

 

Lemme know how it pans out. It would be immensely useful for me as I have static lasers and mirrors in this show. I hope to take time to figure out how to build my own, but right now its battle mode.

 

thanks

[LJ TMS]

29 minutes ago, bbudzon said:

One such feature was the ability to turn off geometry for a fixture at the fixture level (instead of at the global level).

 

Individual fixture geometry can be turned off without doing so globally. In the Scene Graph, if you expand the dropdown of the fixture one level below it's name (called "base"), select it, then uncheck "Visible" in the Properties window, the fixture geometry will no longer appear.

 

 

[fuberator]

cool!

 

I took a source4, added a pinhole gobo and pumped up the candela and beam multiplier to some preposterous number. Its showing promise but I am having a hard time controlling falloff or some other choking parameter. Depending on the viewing angle, different parts of the beam is invisible

 

[bbudzon]

3 hours ago, LJ TMS said:

In the Scene Graph, if you expand the dropdown of the fixture one level below it's name (called "base"), select it, then uncheck "Visible" in the Properties window, the fixture geometry will no longer appear.

 

ZOMG @LJ TMS you are a life saver hahahahah I totally forgot we already had this!! Thank you for being such a knowledgable customer!!! 😄

[bbudzon]

3 hours ago, fuberator said:

Depending on the viewing angle, different parts of the beam is invisible

 

@fuberator There may be a few different things you can try.

 

For starters, make sure you are using a very narrow beamed S4 such as a 5deg.

Next, bump up your Surface Light Quality to High or Very High in the Application Settings.

Next, ensure that Volumetric Quality is at 100% in the Application Settings.

Next, try toggling between the old Volumetrics and the new Enhanced Volumetrics. Also, try playing with haze settings in general as "pockets" of haze may make it appear like the laser has "disappeared".

Lastly, try making the pinhole in your gobo just a little bit bigger if you are still running into issues. It may just be that it is such a small beam that it turns "paper thin" at certain angles/distances/etc.

[LJ TMS]

3 minutes ago, bbudzon said:

ZOMG @LJ TMS you are a life saver hahahahah I totally forgot we already had this!! Thank you for being such a knowledgable customer!!! 😄

 

No problem, glad to help!