Copying Symbols to Modify and Save as a New Symbol

[TSpital]

Greetings,

I'm a recent convert from AutoCAD and though the transition has not be too problematic, I have come across a challenge that I can't get my head around.

I am in the process of creating my own folder of custom symbols.

For example, a 6' Banquet Round Table of 10 chairs.

I've built the symbol successfully using an existing 72" table symbol and an array of event chairs.

I want to use this symbol as a basis for additional configurations of tables with seating of 9, 8, 7, 6 & 5 chairs.

My approach is to duplicate the 6' Round of 10 symbol and 3D edit it to 9 chairs.  

When I do this, the new symbol I am creating changes to 9 chairs, but so does the original symbol that had 10 chairs.

It keeps on doing this regardless of what I try.

I know there is a basic step I am missing here but I can't seem to figure it out.  

 

I have found this forum very useful in my transition to VW.

Thanks to all who submit.

 

I'm running VW 2019 SP4 on a MacbookPro (Mohave)

 

 

[Pat Stanford]

Welcome to Vectorworks!

 

Everything is working exactly the way it is supposed to! Now we just need to help you wrap your head around what that way is.

 

Symbols Instances in drawings are effectively a link to the Symbol Definition. If you change the Symbol Definition, every Instance changes to match, but keeps it's original position and rotation. So, if you have a chair symbol and there are 8 of them around the table, and you decide you don't like something about the definition (color, line weight, round vs square, etc.) when you change the Symbol Definition of that chair, every instance in the drawing of that symbol changes. Extremely useful. And sometimes extremely annoying when that is not what you really wanted.

 

So in your case to generate symbols with different numbers of chairs, you need a way to break the link between the Symbol Definition and the specific Symbol Instance that you want to change. Under the Modify Menu:Convert is a command named Convert to Group. This will take the current selected symbol and make a group out of it in whatever view you are currently in. (If you only have a single object selected, it will not make the group but rather just convert it to a single object). You can then edit the group (and probably Ungroup it) and then make a new symbol from the objects.

 

If you have a Hybrid Symbol (contains both screen plane and 3D objects), the Convert to Group will only get you the 2D (Screen Plane, Top/Plan) view or the 3D objects, but not both. You can either duplicate the symbol and Ungroup it in Top/Plan and some other view, or you can find the symbol in the Resource Browser, select it, right click and choose Duplicate. This will give you a duplicate of the original symbol. Select it, right click and rename to something that makes sense. Right click again and Edit the new symbol. You can edit both the 2D and 3D aspects of the Symbol Definition separately from the Resource Browser.

 

Once you have a new Symbol Definition, select the original symbol and choose Replace in the Object Info Palette (OIP). This will let you select the Symbol Definition to use for that Symbol Instance. The insertion point and rotation of the replacement Symbol Definition will be the same as the original Symbol Instance.

 

If you really want to get fancy, you could use Marionette or Vectorscript (Pythonscript) to generate a PlugIn Object that would let you enter the number of chairs in the OIP, but that is definitely a discussion for another thread and probably many hours of work.

 

If this is not clear enough, please ask again.

[EAlexander]

Looks like Pat has you covered - here's a few more thoughts.

 

Symbols = Blocks in AutoCAD.

 

I would make my first table and chair symbol - and name it something descriptive: "72" with 10 Chairs".  Then, in the resource browser, right click on the symbol and choose DUPLICATE.  When you do this a dialogue will pop up asking you to name this new symbol - so call that "72 with 9 chairs".  Now right click on that new symbol in the Resource manager and choose edit - go in and remove a chair and redistribute your 9 chairs.  Keep doing this to make all the different symbols you need.

 

You can nest symbols (symbols inside of symbols) - so in the example above - the 72" table could be a symbol - then 10 chair symbols could do around it and all of that can be made into your symbol.  This way - if you want to change linen color on the 72" tables, no matter how many chairs - you can update just the table symbol.  Symbols inside of symbols - make sense?

 

Say you've laid out your gala with 400 tables and chairs - all 72" with 10 chairs.  Now, you need to change half of them to 9 chairs.  Select the tables you want to change on your design layer - right click and choose REPLACE - then pick the 9 chair symbol from the list.

 

Vectorworks ideology: Important to know that double clicking/editing on any symbol, be it on a design layer or from the resource manager, will change it globably in all instances. There isn't a parent child relationship with the resource manager. 

 

Finally - If you have just one table that you need to have a custom layout for, you can select that table symbol on the design layer and Cntl+K and it will break the symbol into just a standalone group.  Then you can edit it.  Just know that it is now just a group of objects and not linked to anything anymore.

 

Hope that helps!

 

e.

Edited June 28, 2019 by EAlexander

[TSpital]

Thank you Gentlemen!

I got it now.

I knew there had to be a simple way to do this.

I'm sure I will reach out again.

 

Thanks!

 

T.