Basic questions from new VW 11 user

[nesika41]

I'm hoping to learn VW 11 to the extent I can earn money doing (hopefully) freelance CAD work.

1. If I can spend, say $1,500 for equipment, how should I spend the money? I have an imac600* now, which isn't worth trying to upgrade, and has too small a screen, etc. I have a good external DVD/CD drive/burner (Pioneer 109), and a 120G external FW/USB 2 HD. Would a 1.42 mac mini work OK, with a flat screen CRT? (The CRTs are SO cheap, especially for refurbs. And: would I be happier in the long run if I got a 20" or even bigger screen?) Or should I lean toward a G5, possibly, again, a refurb? I know people say MORE MEMORY, MORE MEMORY, but is a G enough? (I think that's the limit for a mac mini.)

2. What are the best self-teach manuals/cd's?

3. Is it true (maybe this should have been the first question) that there is more CAD work out there than there are people who can do it?

4. Is there a way to convert digital images to symbols/objects?

5. Only got 256M memory. So far, when I've worked up a 3D piece larger than something simple, when I try to render it--even unshaded/simple--VW freezes and I have to force quit.

6. Is it just my inexperience, or does the rendering that comes w/ VW pretty lame, anyway? I've read that some people use Artlantis, and I DL'd a demo, but there's no plugin for VW, that I can find.

[grant_PD]

Some quick answers for you:

Better monitors make for faster work. I work with a 23" HD cinema display at the office and 19" CRT at home. I'm far faster with the larger monitor, because I'm not panning and zooming so much.

My office computer is a dual processor G5, and it's a fast renderer. If you're doing a lot of renderings, it's more expensive but I'd go the dual processor route. Time=money, and I don't want to sit around and wait for my computer to render any longer than I have to. RAM? I gig is fine for starters, you'll have no real complaints.

If you're just getting started, VW offers a set of training CD's that are really like taking a guided tour of the program. It won't teach you methods for organizing your projects and being efficient, that's up to you. Depending on the area of work you're in, you can always ask other users for hints and help.

Is it true that there is more CAD work than people? Gee I hope so, otherwise I'm out of job

You can import digital images, but aside from resizing them you can't really work with them. I've never made one into a symbol, although I've certainly made them into textures which I've mapped onto symbols (the more specific version of this is an "image prop" which people use for otherwise difficult things to model like people and plants).

VW used to freeze on me when I had less than a gig of ram. Especially on hidden line renderings of any sort. Shaded/unshaded polygon renders (and artistic) are a different kind of render, according to my computer. Renderworks and open gl seem to have no trouble.

I'm looking into artlantis myself, and you'll find others talking about cinema4d. I use renderworks, and have achieved some good results. Check out my site: www.gvzmedia.com

All the renders there are from vw/renderworks.

Again, it depends on your application and what the final output/presentation needs to be.

[Kiwi Ross]

Giday,

I am self employed - work from home and have been using VW for about 6 years. No big budgets to work with. I have been using PC all that time and it works just fine. You will always get those that say one is better than the other (PC v's Mac), so all that I will say is that PC does me fine. You can see lots of my work in the galleries under Ross Abernethy.

Screen sizes - yep, big is cool but for those watching budgets perhaps try say a 19" CRT with a 17" flat screen - all the tool pallets on the small thus giving more acreage for the drawings. I have now prgressed on to 3 x 19" flat screens and this really speeds things up as you can work on one for the drawing, one for the pallets and the other for reference.

As Grant pointed out, at least a Gig of RAM as soon as you are into 3D stuff.

As with PC's you can basically drip feed and just upgrade various things when it suits - chip, memory, graphics card etc. It has worked well for me so good luck in your endevours.

Ross

[ 04-18-2005, 01:37 AM: Message edited by: Kiwi Ross ]

[nesika41]

Thanks, Grant & Ross

One thing I'm unclear about is which video card to get/look for. (Guess this would be to Grant, for a mac computer.)

[Kevin]

quote:

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Originally posted by Kiwi Ross:

... I have now prgressed on to 3 x 19" flat screens and this really speeds things up as you can work on one for the drawing, one for the pallets and the other for reference.

...

---

Ross, I considered such a setup. I was wondering two things.

1. Now that there are 30 inch screens, would you rather go that route or would you still use the 3 smaller screens?

2. Is there a discontinuity in having to jump your cursor across three screens? The idea of moving the pallettes to a separate screen would free up screen space. But I see the downside as having to keep jumping from screen to screen in selecting each tool or pallette.

Thanks in advance

[Kevin]

nesika41: I have been and am still using a 466mhz G4 with 1ghz of RAM. On a budget, I would think that the Mac Mini would be just fine. It would be faster than my setup.

Rendering is the most demanding as stated by Grant. If you are simply doing CAD work on a budget, then I would think the Mac Mini would be your choice.

[nesika41]

I wonder if there are speed tests somewhere, comparing load times for various configurations. Would be nice to see: a given object/plan rendered by, say, a 1.42 w/ 512MB, vs 1.42 w/ 1G; a 600 w/ 1G vs. 1.25 w/ 512MB, etc, etc. The percentages of speed increases for processor speeds linked to memory.

Kevin, how much speed increase did you see when you increased memory? Going from what to 1G?

Does the mac mini come with a "good" graphics card? Can it (the mini) be speeded up w/ faster processor card?

[APE Design Ctr]

Nesika41,

may I suggest you consider an G5 iMac?

Might be good balance between speed and visibity. Good price point as well.

I think the mini is geared towards the iLife crowd, and may not be best cut out for CAD work.

[grant_PD]

I should clarify a bit here,

I use a G5 dual at the office,

and at home I'm on a toshiba laptop (P2.4 ghz, 1 meg of ram).

The G5 outperforms my laptop because it's got dual 1.8 processors, and the rendering time absolutely shows it.

I don't know what the graphic card of either is. I was under the impression that the graphic card is more critical in the gaming world, where screen redraws occur instantaneously.

I do think you'll get more for your money on a PC, just because you have so many more options.

I too would like to see some benchmark tests done for vectorworks/renderworks.

[Kevin]

quote:

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Originally posted by nesika41:

I wonder if there are speed tests somewhere, comparing load times for various configurations. Would be nice to see: a given object/plan rendered by, say, a 1.42 w/ 512MB, vs 1.42 w/ 1G; a 600 w/ 1G vs. 1.25 w/ 512MB, etc, etc. The percentages of speed increases for processor speeds linked to memory.

Kevin, how much speed increase did you see when you increased memory? Going from what to 1G?

Does the mac mini come with a "good" graphics card? Can it (the mini) be speeded up w/ faster processor card?

---

Your premise as I understand it is that you are on a fixed budget. Money will buy you speed. If speed is what you want then get a G5.

My point is that the Mini is more powerful than what I use now. Sure I would like things to be faster, but I am productive and earning a living with what I have.

I don't think you can be picky with a $1,500 budget. Pack a Mini with 1gb of RAM and you should be fine until you have the funds to upgrade.

I don't see the point of speed tests. A G5 will be faster than a G4.

Don't know if the RAM affected performance. I can say that I have never experience any perceived memory related problems with 1gig.

I would expect that the Mini has a faster video card than my three year old OEM card. I don't think my card is even Quartz capable. Once again, if you are on a budget I don't see how you can be choosy over the card. There are not many options on the Mac. If you are talking about a PC then that is a whole different story.

[michael john williams]

Grant

Checked out your renderings on your site and they are pretty good. Are they all done in renderworks?

[Kevin]

Another advantage that I see in the Mini is that it is display independent. Buying an iMac or eMac obligates you to that combination.

Once you are ready for a G5, you can still use your display from the Mini.

[Kevin]

quote:

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Originally posted by michael john williams:

Grant

Checked out your renderings on your site and they are pretty good. Are they all done in renderworks?

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From Grant's webpage: "Computer generated renderings built in Vectorworks. Rendered in Renderworks. All renderings, including freehand, are adjusted in Photoshop."

[Kiwi Ross]

Kevin.

1. Smaller screens. The third one is very useful when working off another electronic document / web page etc. You can sit multiple monitors into a corner much better than one huge screen.

To the bigger screens - your eyes are darting all over the place - but then again, I have not worked on a huge (24 - 30") screen.

2. There is no discontinuity with the cursor as you have the screens all at the same height - the cursor simply travels smoothly across as one big screen.

The word "jumping" does not really come into it.

One big advantage of having a large amount of screen space for pallets is that the Resource Browser and the Object Info pallets are very big and you do not have to go scrolling through them in order to see everything.

Either way you look at it, every one gets used to the way they work. All I can suggest is that if you know someone with a different work situation - large or multiple monitors, see if you can sit in front to see how it may work for you.

[ 04-18-2005, 05:09 PM: Message edited by: Kiwi Ross ]

[grant_PD]

responding to the need for benchmark tests, what I'd be interested in would be to compare pcs vs mac, at a similar processor speed.

As far as the renderings go Michael, they are all in Vectorworks with Renderworks. People are dropped in in photoshop, and sometimes rows of lights with their beams showing to indicate rock and roll style stuff. But all modelling, texturing, and graphic work is done in VW. I find it helps keep me "honest" when designing looks, rather than romanticizing stuff in photoshop.