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Bruce Kieffer

I wish there were less times that I had to say; "Why doesn't this work?"

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Far too often I try to do something in Vectorworks and it doesn't work. I wish the app could tell me why rather than just do nothing. I waste too much time trying to figure these things out. I've been using the Split Tool recently, and sometimes it does nothing. Vectorworks knows the tool is doing nothing to the object selected, so Vectorworks should be able tell me why not. After much playing around I finally figured it out. The layer of the object being split must be the active layer. OK, I'm not sure why that makes a difference, but my point is Vectorworks should tell me the reason when the operation fails so I don't spend hours trying to figure it out.

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Ah, the eternal wish for the machine to be able to read your mind and know what you are trying to do.

 

VW might know that it was not able to split something, but it has no way of knowing that you were trying to operate on an object on a different layer.

 

I think VW does a pretty good job of telling you what it can when it is not able to accomplish something. If the wrong type of object is selected for instance, it will normally tell you. To many or too few objects selected.

 

While it is annoying when it does not work, I personally don't want the slowdown that would occur if a command that did not execute properly had to do a check of every other object in the drawing to see if maybe it could guess if you really meant that object and then try to figure out why it could not do the operation on that object. Alternatively, the option would be to open a window showing the top few reasons that it might not have worked. I don't want that either.

 

More useful notifications are desirable. Guesses by the program about what I may be wanting to do when I have not told it exactly what I want are not.

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11 minutes ago, Pat Stanford said:

VW might know that it was not able to split something, but it has no way of knowing that you were trying to operate on an object on a different layer.

Pat,

 

I think it does know this. It knows the active layer, and it knows if the object is on a different layer.

 

I looked at the Vectorworks help. No mention of having to be on the active layer for the split tool to work. I watched the video about the split tool. No mention of having to be on the active layer for the split tool to work. The video does say the the object being split will have a red outline during the operation. I see the red outline when I try to split on the non-active layer, and nothing happens.

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3 hours ago, Pat Stanford said:

Are your layer options set to Show/Snap/Modify Others?

Yep. Classes too.

1790911267_ScreenShot2019-05-31at10_33_55PM.thumb.png.9af5b4ed43720f3d6b36ebd0d29a9fee.png502670019_ScreenShot2019-05-31at10_34_03PM.thumb.png.d4b0a5ea3b5c3d425497b568d24aec75.png

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I'm going to suggest that this inability to use the Split Tool when the object resides on a layer other than the active layer is yet another bug. There's just no good reason why it shouldn't work.

 

My wish of "I wish there were less times that I had to say; "Why doesn't this work?" remains a wish.

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I just ran into this on the "add solids" command.  It turns out that like you... it wouldn't work because the objects were on different layers.  Perhaps just an error alert saying:  " this function requires objects to be on the same layer" ?  That would clue in the user to understand problem.  Of course - Bruce's request to just make the software work more easily for the user is even better.

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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, Taproot said:

I just ran into this on the "add solids" command.  It turns out that like you... it wouldn't work because the objects were on different layers.  Perhaps just an error alert saying:  " this function requires objects to be on the same layer" ?  That would clue in the user to understand problem.  Of course - Bruce's request to just make the software work more easily for the user is even better.

 

I've run into this too with solid additions and subtractions. This one may be a bit harder to fix for Vectorworks since the commands are grayed out so you can't even do the operations in the first place unless they are on the same layer. Once again, Vectorworks Help makes no mention of the need for the objects to be on the same layer. I guess these are things we just have to learn by spending time with the app. They could add the info to the tooltip, they certainly need to add it to the Help.

 

I've always used classes to separate my objects, and only recently have I started using more layers. Most of my drawings in the past were of one thing (a piece of furniture) where I only used layers to show completely different things, like cutting layouts.  Presently, I'm working on remodeling my house, so my Vectorworks drawing for this is much more complex, and I must use layers to quickly separate out large groups of similar objects like walls, floor, ceiling, cabinets, and fixtures. Reviewing your issue with solid additions has given me a better understanding of layers, and here's what I've learned: Vectorworks IS showing us the active layer when we select multiple objects on different layers. The active layer selected objects are outlined in green, and they have blue handles (these colors changed be changed in the Interactive Appearance Settings), and the non-active layer selected objects are outlined in red, and they have white handles. I will watch this more closely in the future.


877791700_ScreenShot2019-06-02at6_54_41AM.thumb.png.10bdf2592f1c84344b6eb459c2c4171c.png

 

Back to the Split Tool: I still say this is a bug. If Vectorworks can't split an object on a non-active layer (I still see no reason why it can't), then I should NOT be able to use the tool on that object, but I can, even though it just does nothing.

 

1304669049_ScreenShot2019-06-02at8_12_26AM.thumb.png.9714269fb1d87542c89fd7447a44fad4.png

Edited by Bruce Kieffer

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I just did a test on VW2019 SP3 and it split an object not on the active layer without a problem.  There is something else going on.

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Pat Stanford said:

I just did a test on VW2019 SP3 and it split an object not on the active layer without a problem.  There is something else going on.

 

I can make it work on a 2D object, but not a 3D object. The resulting 2D split objects are open polylines. I can double click the 3D object and go into 2D edit mode and then split that, close the ployline, exit, and then the 3D object is split. None of that is how it should work. I created a test file and uploaded it here.

Split Tool No Workie.vwx

Edited by Bruce Kieffer

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I am seeing the same thing.

 

Either a bug or else WAD (Working as Designed), but with a bad design.

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More and more convinced it is a bug.

 

An extrude on a a different layer can not be split. But split it first on the active layer and then the resulting Solid Section can be split on a non-active layer.

 

A sphere on a different layer can not be split. But split it first on the active layer and the resulting Solid Section can NOT be split on a non-active layer.

 

Quote

“Curiouser and curiouser!” Cried Alice (she was so much surprised, that for the moment she quite forgot how to speak good English).”


― Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

 

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Posted (edited)

Pat,

How do we get this moved to the bug reports?

Edited by Bruce Kieffer

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I found the sometimes split case when I was working on filing a bug report. I think this needs to be researched deeper to make sure I am reporting the correct bug. I should send it later today.

 

 

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17 minutes ago, Pat Stanford said:

I found the sometimes split case when I was working on filing a bug report. I think this needs to be researched deeper to make sure I am reporting the correct bug. I should send it later today.

 

 

Thanks.

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