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scottmoore

help with sheet layer visibilities

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Greetings.  I am working on stage plots for an awards show which is a bit of a complicated process.  I have a template for this sort of thing which is pretty cool, but i came up with an idea to make it even cooler, ad now I've broken the whole thing.  Here is the situation:  

 

- I have a class for each artist that is performing.  

- I have created a large number of spike marks using the rigging tool which makes laying them out extremely convenient

- Have a sheet layer for each artist for export purposes.  

 

Here is the issue:  

To make the process really simple, every spike mark is on it's own class.  That way, I can go to my design layer and basically "turn on" the appropriate spike marks by activating the requisite classes for any given artist.  The problem is that I would then have to go to the sheet layer and do the same thing since those viewports are already created.  I suppose the simple solution would be to forego viewports and print directly from the design layer.  Anyone have any better ideas than that?  

 

Thanks!   

 

 

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Go to the Viewports pane of the organization palette. Choose Visbilities in the upper right instead of Details.

 

You should now be able to run down the list of viewports and set the class visibilities for each relatively quickly and easily without having to go to each sheet layer, select the viewport, click on Classes and choose the right classes.

 

For the future, if you use a uniform naming standard, it would probably be possible to write a script that would turn on the appropriate class to match the viewport. I am thinking something like having the viewport and class names the same but with different suffixes (i.e. Cher-VP, Cher-CL). But if you do this make sure you don't want multiple artist classes on in the same VP as part of the script would need to be to turn off all of the other -CL classes so you don't have to manually do that change.

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Pat, 

That is a helpful idea, but I don't think that is going to work.  If it were just me working on the document it would be one thing, but at some point my stage managers are going to jump in and they are not necessarily as savvy in the ways of VW.  I am pretty sure I am going to have to print from the design layer to keep this simple and that is probably the best idea anyway.  It's what we did before we had viewports and horse driven carriages.  

 

The issue with the script as you determined it is that there are just a single set of generic spike marks that have to work for all artists.  14 artists in 2.5 hours on one stage, It's basically how fast can I get this artist off and the next on.  I look at a master list of available spikes, compare that to the stage plot sent by the artist and then enable the ones that are most applicable.  In the past i've copied and pasted them from the master sheet to each artist's class which solves the problem, but also leads to potential for mistakes when pasting.  (paste in place is clearly indicated here)

 

As to scripts, I think there are quite a few things that would be helpful with this type of document starting with a "find-replace" function for pretty much everything.  I have a drum kit w/ riser symbol, keyboard with riser symbol, class, sheet layer, saved working view, and saved print view for every artist.  Man, if I could replace "Artist 01" with "XYZ Band", that would save a TON of time.  Having a tool that was specific to spike marks as opposed to a rigging tool would also be great.  Andy Dunning and I were discussing that the other day.  

 

Your input is always quite valuable Pat and I appreciate it.  

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I'm having a bit of difficulty here. If each artist has a sheet, isn't it just a matter of turn on the correct class in the correct VP? Then every SM can have a sheet?

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It seems to me that your updating 14 VPs once so that all the stage managers needs to do is access the proper sheet is far less likely to cause problems that an unsophisticated VW user having to remember to turn on and off multiple classes to get the proper setting.

 

But only you know your needs.

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Posted (edited)

Kevin, 

The issue is that all adjustments to the stage plot for each artist is done on the design layer.  Therefore, I can turn on the appropriate classes for each spike mark on the design layer and all is well,  The conundrum is, since the sheet layers are already part of the drawing, the spike marks were not enabled when the sheet layer was created, so the only way to get them to show up after the fact is turn the correct ones on in the drawing layer and then do the process again in the view port on the sheet layer.  Unless I am missing something.  

 

And Pat, to your point, I may have made this far more complicated than it need be.  Hopefully, everything will be completed by me before we ever get on site and the stage managers will never have to touch the file other than execution and none of this will matter.  That is the plan.  If there were any changes, my hope would be that they would go into the drawing layer, turn off spike mark C (which is located on the class: "spike mark-C") and turn on spike mark-D.  That would be well within any of their skill sets.  Copying and pasting spike marks from the master list (that would have originally been on the "spike marks" class) to a particular Artist's class, then wondering why it disappeared (because it came from a class that is now not on) and then remembering to turn on that class to see it, but then forgetting to assign the copy to the artist's class which then means it disappears later, becomes a big issue.  The issue sounds a lot like "Scott, the file is not working right....."

 

This is why I am thinking that printing directly from the drawing layer is probably the solution.  Turn on the appropriate spike marks, move the set pieces around, assign some mixes, and done.  Maybe.  

 

Thanks guys.    

Edited by scottmoore

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Well, I  no longer print from the DL, just from the SL. You're right you have to do this twice, UNLESS you activate the Classes in the SLVPs when you create the classes. This assumes you've named the SLVPs well when you created them (that for me is one of those do as I say, not as I do things).

 

My argument might be that if you tae the time to set uptake classes in the SLs, you will save time when there are changes.

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I suppose I should also mention, the reason all of this really matters is that artist rehearsals happen at a different time and location than production.  Therefore the lighting / video team are programming in one location and rehearsals are happening elsewhere.  Not at all ideal but it is necessary.  That is why we try to get all the spike marks correct in advance so that the lighting guys can get all their necessary focuses done without ever seeing an artist.  Should there absolutely have to be a change during artist rehearsals, that is where the stage managers have to update the file and then contact the programmers to tell them what change(s) were made.  We discourage those kinds of changes as you might imagine.    It would be great if those changes did not have to happen in two locations in the file.  

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Why would the changes be in two locations? Move the spike in the DL, and SLVP is updated.

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It’s never a question of moving a spike mark. It’s a question of turning one on or off. For instance, there is only one DSC spike mark, and then perhaps spike marks 4’ either side of that, 8’ either side of that etc. the idea being to minimize focus points for the programmers. Every artist is using some grouping of generic spike marks. 

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Cool topic, really excited to see how this real-world scenario plays out. Thanks all!

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4 hours ago, scottmoore said:

To make the process really simple, every spike mark is on it's own class.

To me - this complicated it.  Why isn't the artist and their spike marks in the same class? 

 

I don't know that I fully understand the spike marks being separate.....

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Could it be the “generic” spike marks element is what keeps them from being added to each layer?

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Posted (edited)

That is a good question and probably the part I’ve not clarified. Unlike most shows, we are not setting spike marks per artist during their rehearsal as there frankly is not time and odds are, their lighting was already programmed before they got  to rehearsal anyway. Normally there would be a color spike tape assigned per artist and all that but I cannot do that here. Instead, there is a generic set of spike marks that all artists use. Let’s say it’s like this for simplicity sake:

 

A (-12’, 0’) B (-8’, 0’) C (-4’, 0’) D (0, 0) E (4’, 0’) F (8’, 0’) G (12’, 0’) 

 

Artist 1 is a lead singer at center, a guitarist SR and a bass SL.  I turn on B, D and F

 

Artist 2 is duo downstage so I turn on C and E. 

 

What I never want to do is physically move the spike marks so they all stay locked on their own classes. It’s just a question of which spike marks are turned on per artist. 

 

There is always a master sheet with ALL the spike marks that we use to physically layout the floors in both locations. (We get to do the performance location twice, so that is fun) We also use this to refrence which spike marks to turn on. 

Edited by scottmoore

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As so often happens in VW, I am going to suggest a Record/Field  and Worksheet solution.

 

Viewports have a semi-new feature (as of VW2017 I think), called Data Visualization. You can change the attributes of object that meet certain criteria. In this case, I would recommend a custom Record be attached to the objects you want to be displayed for each artist.

 

Create a Record named Artist Spikes. Create a Boolean field for each artist. To make it easily reusable you could name them something like A1, A2, A3, ... A14, etc. By setting them to boolean they will always be either on or off. Attache the Record to each object that you only want shown for some artists and check the boxes for each artist that that object is supposed to show.  To make it easier to work with this, you could also create a Worksheet with a Database of objects with the record and a column for each artist. Format the columns as Boolean and you can control what is displayed for True and False, and you get a pull down that only lets you choose True or False for the field.

 

In the viewport choose Data Visualization from the Shape pane of the OIP. Check the Enable Data Visualization for this Viewport. Choose the Record as being Artist Spikes. Since this is the Viewport for Artist 1, choose Record Field of A1. Set the False value under options to have a line weight of Zero so that objects without that field being true are drawn invisible. Set the Draw All Other Objects:  to Normally. This means that objects that don't have the Artist Spikes record attached will be shown normally. Update the viewport. All of the spikes that are not being used for that artist should disappear.


Duplicate the viewport, edit the Data Visualization to choose Record Field A2. You now have the viewport for Artist 2.

 

Lather, Rinse, Repeat.

 

The attached file shows a simple layout of 3 circles, but it should work for nearly any object.  Double click on the worksheet at the bottom to put it in edit mode, change the worksheet values and the viewports should update. If they don't update automatically select them and choose Update from the OIP or select Update Selected Viewports from the View menu.

 

Maybe too late for this show, but something to think about for future shows.

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Can we see your file? I have to admit I'm still a little confused.

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Sorry about that. I intended to attach the file to my earlier post.

 

Here is an example of one design layer with three objects each with the attached record and a field for "each viewport"  Edit the worksheet or change the object in the OIP and what is shown in the Viewport will change.

Artist Spikes Data Visualization.vwx

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Pat, 

That is a fascinating concept and one I had certainly not considered because I am frankly not that clever.  It will be worth looking into for the future.  

 

My solution for now is to print from the design layer which works fine.  The prints look just the same as from the sheet layers and it removes almost all the complexity.  The only caveat is that either I either have to go in and add the spike marks in the saved view Or create a new saved view once I've completed the layout.  

 

Kevin, I think the confusion comes form the fact that all of us know how we would normally go about rehearsing and spiking a show and this is nothing at all like that.  We just cannot do that for this event.  We have to start out with a set of spike marks that everyone uses.  Attached is an image of all the current spike marks turned on.  Each is on it's own class so I only turn on what is needed for each artist.  This is basically an overlay of every artist's stage plot with me having to make a few executive decisions based on the space available.  For example, instead of being 10' off of center stage left  I might have to move a performer to spike mark E that is 8' off of center.   By classing all of these individually, I can just turn on and off whatever I need per layout.  In my case now, that either gets saved as a "saved view" or I go in and edit the save view with whatever classes I need to have visible.  In the past I've just copied and pasted the spike marks from the master class into each artist's class.  That works, but there is potential for moving things accidentally and it's just a bit tedious.   This way it is pretty straight forward.  

 

Thanks for all your help!  

Screen Shot 2019-05-15 at 12.18.57 PM.png

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See. I've just moved away from Saved Views to SLVPs for printing and page layout.

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