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psychofish

11.5 slowness issue

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Hi all,

I know there's been a lot of posts lately on VectorWorks 11.5 being really slow (a lot slower compared to 11.5) but I want to be a little more specific here about what kind of slowness I'm experiencing. I don't know if it's similar to the Quicktime or upgrade issues that were already talked about.

This is for the Windows version.

So in VectorWorks 11 I had no speed problems at all. But after the upgrade to 11.5, I found that my menu (of all things!) and ctrl-based commands were very, very slow to respond. For instance I might click on the File menu and I can count to two or three seconds before something appears. Or I might hit Ctrl-G for "Group" or even something as simple as a cut and paste operation, and yep, there's that wait again before something happens. I wrote a vectorscript that allowed me to bind "Zoom Line Thickness" to a Ctrl-button. Also slow now, although it worked instantaneously in 11.

But everything else runs very quickly. Zooming, panning, drawing, anything that I can rely on via a shortcut key (which don't utilize the ctrl button) or by clicking on the toolbar, functions just as quickly as it did in VW11.

So the problem isn't that VW11.5 is slower overall--but for certain portions of it, it is. And I don't understand why, because it's not like these were upgraded in 11.5 (right?).

Does anyone else experience this? Is there anything I can do? When I have to wait between commands it severely affects my drafting rhythm...

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pf,

We've not had anything similar to what you describe. In addition, we run all Macs here, so these suggestions may or may not apply.

Our general experience is that when VW, itself, seems out of whack (not just a specific file) it's one of only a couple of things:

1) The hard drive, including permissions, needs optimizing. I'm not sure Windows has an equivalent to permissions, but it's sometimes amazing what difference optimizing makes. Always be sure to optimize before installing.

2) Sometimes performance issues ? but more often other quirks ? can be remedied by throwing away the preferences file (on a Mac the application preferences reside in the System folder). The application will re-create a new preferences file next time it's launched and you'll have to re-enter the serial number(s).

3) Other times the VW installation wasn't completely successful. This requires that VW be uninstalled (including the related preference files) and then reinstalled. Preferably from the CD. This has solved nearly every performance-related issue we've run up against, including a large portion of the crashing problems.

4) Finally, it seems sometimes that VW takes over the whole computer's resources and grinds a little slower by the minute. I've only had this happen after several hours (more than 4 or 5) of continuous use. Some types of rendering refuse to even try, text changes become excersizes in slow molasses, etc. A general, overal slowing (unlike what you describe). Quitting and re-launching VW doesn't help. Only a system restart fixes this.

I must say our observations are that 11.5 works a little faster than any recent version. We use hidden-line rendering alot, which is MUCH faster, so that might skew our view somewhat.

With any luck these will be helpful.

[ 04-06-2005, 08:10 PM: Message edited by: Travis ]

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Macs and PCs are different enough that I don't think most of those suggestions would work...

1) The best equivalent to hard drive optimization I can think of in Windows is defragmentation, but it has nothing to do with permissions... at the very best it should improve disk access speed by a small amount, and I don't think it has anything to do with the slowness of specific commands here.

2) Does anyone know where this "preference file" (if it exists) is on a PC?

3) I have uninstalled VW and did a fresh upgrade. No improvement.

It appears to me that this is a problem that's in the program itself? For some reason, the commands just execute slowly-- it happens all the time, even after a fresh install or a fresh reboot. Not quite willing to go so far as to wipe the system clean and start over, but I have a feeling that won't fix the problem either. My guess is that someone over at the programming department got a little sloppy and left some un-optimized code in this release...

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On MacG5 OSX , these problem exist but are remedied by use of the excellent Utility 'Cocktail ' which allows you to 'Re-bind" the system files and 'Re-Locate' & 'Whatis" & update the permissions database.

Also, dswipe the VW applicate folder & subfolders. Use of Cocktail Cron scripts brings everything back into focus... presto !

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hi psychofish

i know a office with three computers vw11.5 and the same problem. all shortcuts are very slow. on the same computers 11.0 works fine.

example:

ctrl+m in 11.5 -> 3sec.

ctrl+m in 11.0 -> <1sec.

-> as testfile we took a new, empty document with a rectangle

which kind of pc do you use?

which kind of graphiccard do you use?

our customer use a dell precision 340, 1,8 ghz, 512 mb ram, nvidia quadro2 64mb with win2000/sp4, office xp, adobe creative suite and norton internet security. the driver of the graphiccard has the version 71.84. quicktime is 6.5.1.

perhaps you have the same or a similiar configuration? please let us know, if you see any similar hardware/software "peaces".

kind regards, marc

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I think that VW 11 alltogether is generally a very slow program, compared with some others I have tried ie AutoCad, Solidworks, Inventor. I even had better speed with AutoCad on an old 1.6G PC with 3Ds Max and 700 Megs of RAM doing similar CPU intensive tasks.

I have been using VW with a G5 Dual 1.8 Macintosh system, and I just upgraded to a G5 Dual 2.5 Mac, both with around 2 Gigs of RAM. I honestly cannot say that I see a huge speed improvement between both of the Macs.

I also have VW 11 running on the same PC as I used to use with the old AC system. Some things I found were actually faster on the PC (like selecting tons of polygons).

I totally love VW and the features, and the interface. The speed on all my machines is substandard for a CAD machine in my opinion.

This is especially noted when my G5s blisters through Photoshop files, Cinema 4D renderings. Everything I bought both of my Pro Macs for works absolutely fantastic except for VW.

I dont think this is just a silly Mac vs PC competition either. I think everyone is complaining right across the board on all platforms.

I have no other metaphor for the program except that it feels like VW totally constipated, no matter how fast a machine you have.

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I think one of the first responses you'll get from Nemetschek staff such as Katie, who contributes here, is to ask what version of Windows are you running, and if XP, what Service Pack Version One or Two.

Usually first suggestion if Service Packs are installed is to check your video card drivers are up to date and matching the Service Pack.

Sorry it's more of a suggestion than a straight answer. Just moving from VW10.5 on Windows to VW11.5 on a Mac myself so I can't comment on 11.5's speed on Windows.

I remember a "patch" being issued for Windows 11.5 recently for issues that did not effect the Mac version. Did you know about this and install it?

Try a search on the subject.

Hope you get it sorted.

Alan

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It is becoming rather obvious to most 'core pro' Users that VW is easily a generation or two behind comparable professional grade apps like Photoshop. In my humble opinion VW has evolved into a cludge of codes and scripts ... some working better than others and often quite differently depending on the version.

Even with the most powerful processors and fastest RAM and state of the art OS, various VW configurations simply fail one way or another ; sometimes with unfortunate results. Perhaps, this is to be expected from a professional grade program supporting multiple layers of legacy Users on different platforms.

Consequently, many of my efforts are spent 'not doing' anything which may be too experimental and somehow take down the file structure or panic the kernel. Even the inclusion of a different font requires much fore thought and planning as does the incorporation of some types of hybrid symbols. I've also been spending more time on this boards than ever before. With an app like Photoshop none of these issues has ( within my long memory ) ever intruded on my workflow.

As a legacy User of VW , I am locked into the code base like a cosmonaut on MIR ... waiting patiently to put out the next fire. Hoping the Soyuz upgrade arrives before the oxygen quits.

This BBS with its challenging and informative postings offers Users a superb opportunity to vent frustrations, make suggestions, provide thoughtful advice and most of all stimulate

developments by Team NNA.

My gratitude goes out to ALL....

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hi board-members

the speed is not a generally problem. we have new acer computers with 11.5 and they are really very fast! in some cases faster than ac :-)

the problem exist only on computers with this configuration: dell precision 340, 1,8 ghz, 512 mb ram, nvidia quadro2 64mb with win2000/sp4, office xp, adobe creative suite and norton internet security. the driver of the graphiccard has the version 71.84. quicktime is 6.5.1.

has any one the same computer or the same graphiccard? i would like to know, if there could be a problem between vw11.5 and nvidia quadro2

kind regards, marc

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quote:

Originally posted by marc wittwer:

...in some cases faster than ac ...

The idea of Vectorworks being only "in some cases" faster than Autocad is a chilling thought by itself, to those of us who used both programs ten or more years ago. Back then, VW was lightning fast, and AC users were always trying to decide whether it would be better to keep working zoomed out so far that you can't see anything, or wait an eternity for a forced regeneration when you zoom in.

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I to am having the same sort of slowness problems as Psychofish desribed.

As to Marc witter saying its on a particular configeration, I'm not so sure.

I am running VW11.5 on PC AMD Athlon 64 bit 3000GHz - 1.5 GB RAM - Radeon 9800 Pro Video Card - with all the other usuals XP, Adobe Acrobat Pro, Photoshop, Quicktime 6.5.1

Having all this, I to have moments when some of the most simple things done can take many seconds to proform.

Just a simple click of the mouse - you wait upto 10 seconds before it allows you to do another - very slow at times - yet some of the more complicated things have no problems at all. [Confused]

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hi kiwi, hi psychofish

do you work in a network? do you have a special "system" to get access to the network? do have a anti-virus-software oder internet-security-software?

it must be something with the configuration, because our customer has the problem not with all computers. and in our office all of the windows computers doesn't have this speedproblems.

kind regards, marc

p.s. note for jan15:

first step: ...in some cases faster than ac....

second step: ....as fast as ac....

third step:....faster than ac....

let's do step by step :-)

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Back then, VW was lightning fast, and AC users were always trying to decide whether it would be better to keep working zoomed out so far that you can't see anything, or wait an eternity for a forced regeneration when you zoom in.

With AC (ver. 14), I used to zoom out to extents, save that as a view, and then zoom back in. Then when I wanted to zoom out later, I would restore the view rather than zoom extents. That eliminated the regen problem.

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<< 2) Does anyone know where this "preference file" if it exists is on a PC? >>

For savvy VectorWorkers one of the first troubleshooting steps, when VW is acting squirrelly, is to "trash the prefs". I always keep a backup copy just in case, so it's a quick fix. Here's the instructions from our local user group newsletter for saving the Preferences file in Windows XP.

When VectorWorks mysteriously misbehaves, often the problem involves corrupted VW preference files in the OS basic settings. VW10 has added a new button to the VectorWorks Preferences dialog to ?Reset Your Preferences? to default values. Unfortunately, this will delete all of your personal settings, including Workspace layout. Windows XP also has a RESTORE function to go back to a previous copy of all Registry settings, but that could affect other programs.

A better way to ?trash your preferences? is to replace the corrupted preferences file with a backup copy. Until NNA gives us a ?backup prefs? option. Here?s a manual procedure for Windows users:

First, under the Vectorworks 10 folder, create a new empty folder named ?DBL CLICK TO TRASH PREFS?.

Next, Run: regedit.exe

In the Registry Editor, go to HKEY_CURRENT_USER

Click + to expand and go to SOFTWARE

Click + to expand and go to NEMETSCHEK

Click + to expand and go to VECTORWORKS 11

Click + to expand and go to PREFERENCES

Right click on PREFERENCES icon to open a context dialog box

Go to EXPORT and click to open the EXPORT REGISTRY FILE dialog

Browse to the ?DBL CLICK TO TRASH PREFS? folder

Type a name for your backup copy: ?VWprefs.reg

Now when you double-click on the binary .reg file,

Windows will import the backup copy back into the Registry,

And overwrite the corrupted prefs file.

JHE

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JHE,

You should post this on the TechNote\How To board. Would be very helpful for many and perhaps easier to find there, since it has fewer postings.

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I am having this exact same problem.

All shortcuts involving SHIFT, ALT or CTRL are slow. Access to menus through mouse clicks is also slow.

Ominously this seems to affect only the two Dell Precision 340s and not a Dell Precision 450. I saw that marc wittwer's post mentioned problems on with Precision340s.

I just updated the drivers for the graphics card and windows is up to date, but none of it seems to make any difference.

We have OfficeXP and QuickTime6.5.1 installed but not norton or CreativeSuite. We also have McAfee antivirus software but it never used to cause a problem with VW9.5.

---------------------------

Henry

Windows 2000 SP4

Dell Precision 340

P4 2.00GHz

526MB RAM

NVidia Quadro2

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Resetting Vectorworks preferences temporarily removes the problem but as soon as any new adjustments are made it slows down again.

Very frustrating.

---------------------------

Henry

Windows 2000 SP4

Dell Precision 340

P4 2.00GHz

526MB RAM

NVidia Quadro2

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Lat's not forget those pesky little invisible '.ds_store' db files which keep track of the contents of the nested VW diectories like 'plug-ins'. If that little '.ds_store' gets corrupted VW really slows to a crawl like a beetle in molasses.

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hi henry

thanks for you message. IT WORKS! our customer has the full speed of vectorworks 11.5 since he reset the vectorworks preferences. you wrote, that if you do any new adjustments vw will slow down again. which "option" do you change?

kind regards, marc

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Hi Marc

I got it wrong before. It does not seem to slow down immediately after changing VW Preferences.

Resetting it does make it run smoothly again, temporarily. I am not sure exactly what slows it down again, but I always change my preferences back, because I need them to work properly:

ON -Eight Selection Handles

OFF-Offset Duplications

ON -Zoom Line Thickness

OFF-Use Sound

Autosave - Every 150 Operations

OFF-Confirm before save

ON -Save to separate file in backup folder

Maximum Number Of Undos - 50

It continues to work fine for maybe 30 minutes with these preferences, then slows down again. I am trying to track exactly what is causing the problem.

Other people at work (but not everyone) are starting to get the same problems.

I am trying to chase the supplier for technical support.

---------------------------

Henry

Windows 2000 SP4

Dell Precision 340

P4 2.00GHz

526MB RAM

NVidia Quadro2

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Try racking the number of undo's back to 20 or even 10 and see whether things improve.

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The difference VW Preference settings don't seem to make any difference to whether the problem occurs or not.

The problem seems to follow on from opening a document.

Thus when you start vectorworks it is slow. Resetting the vectorworks preferences at this point allows it to run normally again. If another drawing is opened side by side, it slows again. This is incremental, so for each drawing opened, it slows a little more. Resetting the preferences with any number of drawings open allows it to run normally.

Hope that makes sense

---------------------------

Henry

WindowsXP ProSP2

Dell Precision 470

P4 3.00GHz

1GB RAM

ATI FireGL V3100

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Everyone at work is now complaining to me about how slow Vectorworks is running, it is a constant, serious problem.

We are able to work around the problem by opening all the drawings we want and then resetting the preferences and then making sure not to open any more drawings, but this is a ridiculous way to work.

I cannot believe that this is not affecting more people, surely Nemetschek must be aware of this problem. I am not getting anywhere with our vendor who is meant to supply the tech support, nor from Nemetschek when I emailed them, although to be fair they must receive hundreds of emails like the one I sent.

Oh and changing the number of undos makes no difference.

Does anyone else have any ideas?

---------------------------

Henry

WindowsXP ProSP2

Dell Precision 470

P4 3.00GHz

1GB RAM

ATI FireGL V3100

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HenryS

What do you see if you have Task Manager open whilst running VW, regarding memory usage and paging. I seem to recall a problem with memory at one time but can't remember all the details.

I may be wrong, it may have even been Mac related but memory usage just kept on going up and up rather than just during a particular operation,till the thing topped out and everything stopped. Memory leakage I think it was called.

What you describe sounds similiar.

Whilst I can't offer any help on this issue directly, it may help to give you another answer and indication to NNA as to what's going on.

It does seem strange that if its a direct problem with VW Windows this board is not swamped with compliants as there are plenty of Windows users here.

Hope it helps, and more importantly you get it sorted soon.

One other thing, and I apologise in advance because you sound on the ball, but have you installed the Windows patch Nemetschek released for 11.5? Just a thought.

Alan

[ 07-04-2005, 01:38 PM: Message edited by: alanmac ]

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