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Renovations: best way to input existing plans


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quote:

Originally posted by jan15:

Jeremy,

I'm very interested in the idea, but I don't understand the picture. It looks like they're getting ready to set up a volleyball net. How does that thing function as a caliper?

By my reading of the draft manual I downloaded, I think they are testing the calibration by measuring individual sand grains. I believe the long handle is for reaching eave linings.

HTH,

N ;-)

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The notebook in the field method is a return to a very old method. It used to be standard practice to take a lightweight folding drafting table to the site when surveying a building, and to draw the plan in the field.

Lately I've been surveying with Sketchup, and creating an entire 3D model in the field.

I see that someone is manufacturing a giant caliper - http://www.etacuisenaire.com/catalog/product;jsessionid=0001QQYQAPWMENHZVDTW1BS0JOQ:ukh6sg9k?deptId=WEIGHTSRULERS&prodId=547 - but it looks like it doesn't have the offset jaws we would need to go around door trim. I suppose they could be added. I think the divider-style caliper is a better idea. Maybe I'll build one.

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jan15; First you piqued my interest with giant calipers. Now you say you are doing field measuring with SketchUp?!

My impression of SketchUp, ( I have version 2), is that it does solid modeling. I have not used it for over a year now. How and why are you using it instead of Vectorworks.

Are you exporting your SketchUp model to VW?

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Ohhhh... So, you got my hopes up for nothing with that Calipio thing. I should have noticed the name.

Kevin,

In all the excitement I missed your question. That rectangle procedure I described was for VectorWorks. I lay out everything in VW with rectangles, because it's so quick to enter the coordinates on the numeric keypad -- Enter, X-coord, Enter, Y-coord, Enter, all in a second or two, and then on to the next rectangle, all without taking your hand off the mouse -- and because it's so easy to combine rectangles into more complex shapes with ClipSurface and AddSurface and to edit those complex shapes with the 2D Reshape tool, and because the finished surface is a handy container object, kind of like a Group or Symbol, but with the same level of user control as a simple line.

You could do the same in Sketchup, but I don't. To enter the coordinates for a rectangle in SU you have to use a comma, as in AutoCad. The comma key is not on the numeric keypad, and using it interrupts the touch-typing of numbers and slows everything down quite a bit. And the SU Rectangle tool doesn't create a container object, just 4 individual lines. And it doesn't work the same as drawing four separate lines -- it often doesn't divide other lines and surfaces. So in Sketchup I draw lines.

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quote:

Originally posted by michael john williams:

We use a Disto and PDA. The digital measurements are sent from the Disto to the PDA and the plan is drawn automatically as you survey the property...

I wish! But it is possible.

I use a Disto as well but not with the PDA. How exactly does this work? I saw the more advanced unit that has the capability but I just don't see how I can take measurements and have those be turned into a floor plan automatically.

BTW, I set the Disto and VW to inches, not feet and inches. This makes for faster keyboard input. Once the plan is drawn, I revert it back to feet and inches.

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propstuff: ROFL

mw: You actually got me! I was so intrigued I read the first paragraph a second time before I noticed your last sentence!

Very funny. [smile]

For what it's worth, I have found four lengths of wood work well. You lay one piece against the side of a wall near an opening. You lay the two remaining pieces against them projecting into the wall opening (doorway). Measure the distance, subtracting the dimensions of the first two 'spacers'. The first two are to keep the second two away from any trim. You need two people for this method, one on each side of the wall. In practice, the spacer is fastened to the wood. It is cheap and works great.

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Kevin,

Good point. It may not be quicker to do a 2D survey in Sketchup. Maybe it just seems quicker because SU is so much fun to use. Though there may be some speed advantage in not having to think about which way is X and which is Y, which is not as obvious when surveying as it is when drafting at a desk. And maybe it's quicker to Push/Pull the third dimension in Sketchup than to note heights as text in Vectorworks.

But even if I found out it's not quicker, I'd still use Sketchup for surveying because I always survey in 3D now, which I can't do in VW. I like having the full 3D model graphically confirmed before I leave the site. And also because I always design in 3D, and my design process starts in SU.

As I said before, Sketchup is no good for detailed drawing, so after the geometry is worked out I have to switch to VectorWorks to do construction drawings.

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Although a bit of a joke, it is possible but I bought a Disto classic rathet than a Disto bluetooth and have just missed out on trying it as I reported on the RIBA web site:

I have just got back from an IT conference in Bristol were Disto was demonstrated with lazercad which alows you to export dwg / dxf files. So you can get over your problem of importing cad survey files.

Contact Michael Axon at www.cad.ltd.uk

They also demoed Allplan which was pretty impressive.

But I have just bought Vectorworks 11 and a non bluetooth disto!

Feel as if I have made a terrible mistake.

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one other additional thought. since we do work on many existing buildings, we use the workgroup reference tool exclusively with as-builts. our survey file is used just for survey, and may change or be adjusted as the project progresses. we use this file as a wg ref in our new work target file, which has all new stuff in it. the clean division between the two is very usefull and effecient. hope this helps...

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quote:

Originally posted by wv_vectorworker:

draw rectangles and extrude them for verticle measures.

That's right. I've heard that a lot of people draw everything in VW in 3D, and use the 3D model for presentation and construction drawings. And I salute them.

But I don't have the patience for VW's 3D system. You have to draw the rectangle in one view and then change to a different view to see the extruded solid. To me, that's too encumbering, too AutoCad-like. I want to see and draw at the same time; I don't want to draw, then numerically specify another dimension of the object in a dialog box, and then use a pull-down menu command to change the view so I can see what I've drawn, and then another command to go back to the first view so I can draw another object. I want to think only about what I'm drawing, not about computer technology.

In Sketchup, you draw everything while in perspective view. Draw a rectangle in the XY plane, or any other plane, and then to extrude it, just grab it and drag it normal to its surface, typing the height as you drag.

And it's harder to see the 3D geometry in VW. And it gets painfully slow when the geometry gets even slightly complicated. In Sketchup I can draw an entire school, with all the muntins in all the windows raised above the glass surface, and all the bricks and stucco and metal roof with their proper texture and color, and never wait even an instant for regeneration as I zoom and fly around the model by just pressing or spinning the mouse wheel.

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But I don't have the patience for VW's 3D system. You have to draw the rectangle in one view and then change to a different view to see the extruded solid. To me, that's too encumbering, too AutoCad-like. I want to see and draw at the same time; I don't want to draw, then numerically specify another dimension of the object in a dialog box, and then use a pull-down menu command to change the view so I can see what I've drawn, and then another command to go back to the first view so I can draw another object. I want to think only about what I'm drawing, not about computer technology.

In Sketchup, you draw everything while in perspective view. Draw a rectangle in the XY plane, or any other plane, and then to extrude it, just grab it and drag it normal to its surface, typing the height as you drag.

Jan,

It does seem that SU takes the prize for the "easiest" and "most natural" system for drawing in, but at least some of your difficulties are easily "solved" in VW.

The numberpad on the side of the keyboard takes you direct to the standard 3D views and Shift-C will take you straight to the flyover tool. When working on design models I constantly flip back and forth through flying around and different views and no longer even notice that I've done it.

The 3D Polygon and Extruded Polgon will allow you to draw in iso or perspective view, ...but not with the simplicity and elegance of SU it's true. :-(

VW sluggish? well yes I guess so, but then on my old PBk everythings slow. ;-)

HTH,

N.

[ 04-02-2005, 03:32 AM: Message edited by: propstuff ]

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I am just starting out in this field and have been researching this also. Like Michael, I just bought VW and a non-bluetooth Disto, but am frustrated to put out this much money when a better solution seems just around the corner.

I'm in the Sketchup demo period and will pick it up at a local event they're holding soon. I'm hoping that I'll be able to complete some of my jobs only in Sketchup. I'll be running it on a Fujitsu slate tablet computer in the field. I has an indoor/outdoor viewable screen and a Otterbox makes a waterproof case for it.

I appreciate the tips on using VW's 3d features and will give it a go. There are obvious advantages to each software I'd like to see how complete a solution each can be on its own.

As for the better solution around the corner... I speak and read German, and have been really FRUSTRATED to see that Nemetschek has released elegant solutions in Europe. They already sell a program called Allplan Metric that allows you to take measurements from the Disto Plus and import them directly into your drawings, and another called Allplan Photo that allows you to easily create scaled models from photographs. I'm consoled by telling myself that these would be out of my price range anyway, as I've already spent a fortune.

I ordered the Allplan Demo from a company in San Jose, but it was worthless since it didn't come with any tutorial information. I chose VW because I hope that it will start to include Allplan features.

Hey Nemetschek, can I be a Beta user of the US versions of these products PLEASE??!!

Zack

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quote:

Originally posted by zackayak:

[QB.... allows you to easily create scaled models from photographs.....[/QB]

I've never tried this, but there's a Sketchup training video that shows how to create a scaled 3D model of a building from a photo, by pasting the photo to first one and then another surface, wrapping it around corners. It's worth seeing just for amusement, even if you're not planning to use it.

It's called "Creating a Model From a Photo", available at http://www.sketchup.com/training/tutorials.php?tutorial=whatsnew

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zack

I completely understand your frustrations, as a few of my postings on this web site illustrate.

Like yourself I went to an IT Show and saw All Plan demoed when I was expecting VW - no one form Nemetschek knew anything about VW!

My concern is that NNA are treating the UK as part of Europe, with All Plan taking over from VW, but they have not told anybody yet - especially theit dedicated VW users!

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