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Simon Allan

Sweep-jagged edges

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Hi,

 

Been having some issues trying to get a smooth sweep when using a profile that has curves in it.

I have attached a simple sample that shows the error. You will need to zoom in on the edge to see it but it is not  a smooth curve.

 

I dont know if this is a graphics setting or something else.

 

Any help appreciated.

 

thanks.

 

Sweep Issue_VW Forum.vwx

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The two settings that would normally affect this are 3d Conversion Resolution on the 3D tab of the Vectorworks Preferences and the segment angle of the Sweep itself. The segment angle is already very high (I would normally set mine to around 5 degrees) so I did some testing with the 3d Conversion Resolution. The results were odd and not what I expected. For whatever reason, the curves got smoother when I reduced my 3d Conversion Resolution (I normally set it at high) to Medium or Low. For the moment I would suggest you try adjusting your 3d Conversion Resolution and see if it resolves your issue.

 

@Jim Wilson would you know why reducing the quality of the 3d Conversion Resolution would make things smoother? Here are some images of what I'm seeing. Does the 3d Conversion Resolution override the Sweep segment angle or vice versa? While not completely smooth, the lower 3d Conversion Resolution settings are visibly cleaner which is not what I would expect.

 

Kevin

9223402_ScreenShot2019-03-25at5_57_07PM.thumb.png.df6c4bf860f34bc4407515d9eb9dadc6.png

1864587278_ScreenShot2019-03-25at5_56_26PM.thumb.png.eb18ea9050e10a3e6a15356a2cfda379.png644634214_ScreenShot2019-03-25at5_58_08PM.thumb.png.6550460b3f210d856222d3eec6a53fde.png1471366055_ScreenShot2019-03-25at5_58_55PM.thumb.png.c84c9dc2233f96a41fb6d8aaff4009c6.png

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Thanks for looking at this Kevin.

 

I changed the setting to low on the file I uploaded and it behaved as your pictures show. 

I also tried on another drawing (sadly I can't share that one) that has the same issue and lowering the 3D conversion setting had no effect. Neither did adjusting the segment angle of the sweep.

 

I think it has something to do with the profile shape and that curves are present. It also might be a hidden line thing too.

 

Either way, the behaviour, as you pointed out, does not make sense.

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You could try using an Extrude Along Path. They create true curved geometry that should render more predictably according to the 3D conversion Resolution settings.

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Using an extrude along path (my path was a circle cut in half) and the same profile (with rounded corners) I get the same "faceted edge" result.

The only difference was the 3D conversion setting behaved as expected in that it got worse the lower the setting was. It was still faceted when set to "Very High" though.

 

 

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35 minutes ago, Simon Allan said:

Using an extrude along path (my path was a circle cut in half) and the same profile (with rounded corners) I get the same "faceted edge" result.

The only difference was the 3D conversion setting behaved as expected in that it got worse the lower the setting was. It was still faceted when set to "Very High" though.

 

Right. There will always be faceting because the hidden line renderer ultimately results in line segments. Sweeps are faceted geometry to begin with but Extrude Along Path objects are not. I believe the unpredictable behavior your getting with a sweep is due to how the hidden line render interprets the huge number of facets your sweeps already have into its own rendered facets.Ultimately, we want to have the Hidden Line renderer provide curved lifework for this. We can do this within symbols (in VW 2019) when using the "Generate 2D from 3D Component" command. The reason we don't use this technology elsewhere yet is because it's slow and sometimes produces errors when interpreting curves.

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1 hour ago, Matt Panzer said:

Right. There will always be faceting because the hidden line renderer ultimately results in line segments.

 

OK, so why does the other object (the one using the non curved profile) render without issues?

 

 

1 hour ago, Matt Panzer said:

I believe the unpredictable behavior your getting with a sweep is due to how the hidden line render interprets the huge number of facets your sweeps already have into its own rendered facets.

 

I have tried various segment amounts and it still seems unpredictable. 

 

1 hour ago, Matt Panzer said:

We can do this within symbols (in VW 2019) when using the "Generate 2D from 3D Component" command.

 

Are you saying this is how I fix it? If so, can you please give more details as I could not find that command. Thanks

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18 minutes ago, Simon Allan said:

OK, so why does the other object (the one using the non curved profile) render without issues?

 

My only guess would be that it has many more facets due to the curved profile. honestly, I don't know. Just a theory.

 

18 minutes ago, Simon Allan said:

I have tried various segment amounts and it still seems unpredictable. 

 

Yes. This is why I suggested an Extrude Along Path. they render more predictable. However, it looks like you managed to get fewer facets in hidden line render with sweeps. Just less predictable.

 

27 minutes ago, Simon Allan said:
2 hours ago, Matt Panzer said:

We can do this within symbols (in VW 2019) when using the "Generate 2D from 3D Component" command.

Are you saying this is how I fix it? If so, can you please give more details as I could not find that command. Thanks

 

No. This will not fix it. The command I'm referring to is within the Edit mode of a 2D component of a symbol. The command creates a "special" hidden line" conversion that produces curved 2D lines (in the symbol's 2D component) from curved 3D geometry. It generally works very well, but can have difficulty with some geometry.

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ok...All understood now, I think.

 

So just to confirm, doing hidden line renders on curves may not be able to show a perfectly smooth curve?

 

If so, is this a bug that can be sorted or "just the way it is"?

 

Thanks

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2 hours ago, Simon Allan said:

ok...All understood now, I think.

 

So just to confirm, doing hidden line renders on curves may not be able to show a perfectly smooth curve?

If so, is this a bug that can be sorted or "just the way it is"?

 

It's "just the way it is" - at least for now. It's the nature of the current hidden line render technology.

As I mentioned previously, we'd like to have something similar to the technology we created for the "Generate 2D from 3D Component" command (in the edit mode of symbols).

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