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Service Pack 3 for Vectorworks 2019 released

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But, for me at least, while it remains graphically challenged (what with that need for refreshing the screen, "disintegration" of graphics while zooming, and a generally jittery feel), it mostly seems far more responsive & faster than VW 2018.  At least with a 300+ MB file, which seems to make 2018 grind to a halt.

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@BG I found that when you need to force a redraw, the B/W toggle switch is the quickest way to force that. I frequently get sheet borders that won't show, so I double click that and, boom, they're back. Annoying but not the end of the world.

 

Hope this helps

 

image.thumb.png.7ba17979ec62897b205ad9a4c0e7f998.png

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15 hours ago, willofmaine said:

By "recreated" do you mean simply updating the viewport, or, literally starting from scratch with a new section line, new crop, etc.?  Other than staggered sections, so far (a couple of days into 2019), I haven't seen any rendering issues with section viewports created in VW 2018.


I'm going from the bug tracking conversation, but it can mean just updating in some cases, and a recreation of the viewport with the annotations/crop copied in from the old, depending. It's also a "can" so it may only affect sections with certain setups.

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For anyone still getting the failure to redraw in 2019 SP3, do you get this on BOTH the Best Performance and Best Compatibility modes?

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1 minute ago, Jim Wilson said:

failure to redraw in 2019 SP3

The only failure I experience in sp3 is title blocks vanishing (They highlight when hovered, but are gone)
Win10

Will test both and let you know.

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For us, with the best perfomance setting, some viewports on sheet layers disappear from view, occasionally.

 

Changing the setting to the middle one remedies the situation.The disappearing occurs again if it is changed back.

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13 hours ago, Jim Wilson said:

For anyone still getting the failure to redraw in 2019 SP3, do you get this on BOTH the Best Performance and Best Compatibility modes?

I guess I haven't done much today to prompt a redraw failure per se, but I'm pretty sure all of the following are related graphics issues, and they ALL occur ONLY in the "Best Performance" mode.  In the "Good Performance and Compatibility" and "Best Compatibility" modes they all work as expected (VWIS159):

 

1.) After moving a page-scale symbol in a plan viewport, about 2/3 of the symbol is left behind.  After zooming, the straggler catches up.

2.) On a design layer, top-plan view, after deleting and re-assigning a class to the None class, about half of everything on the screen disappears.  Zooming resolves.

3.) After moving (by dragging) a group of viewports that has been cut from one sheet and pasted to another, the annotations in the viewport are left behind.  Scroll zooming does not resolve it.  It's necessary to enter the group and edit the viewport; only then do the annotation reunite with their viewport.

4.) As a workaround to No. 3, I tried ungrouping the viewports before cutting and pasting them to their destination sheet.  When regrouped on their destination sheet, they disappeared (except for their red update borders).  Scroll zooming did not resolve, however, dragging the group to move it did. 

5.) It turns out that the erroneous control of page-scale symbol text in viewports by a viewport's Advanced Properties > Text Scale setting, and the lack of control of door and window ID bubble shape sizes by that setting, can be corrected by changing from "Best Performance" mode to "Good Performance and Compatibility."  VWIS156.  See post here:

 

https://forum.vectorworks.net/index.php?/topic/62556-first-hour-with-2019-sp3-productivity-0/#comment-311869

  

Hope that's all helpful...

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10 hours ago, willofmaine said:

3.) After moving (by dragging) a group of viewports that has been cut from one sheet and pasted to another, the annotations in the viewport are left behind.  Scroll zooming does not resolve it.  It's necessary to enter the group and edit the viewport; only then do the annotation reunite with their viewport.

 

^ things staying behind when moving grouped viewports is definitely a bug. See this thread - 

 

Kevin

 

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I'm getting a new problem related to Space Tool upgrade.

I'm using the old version space labels in which I've created some sub-classes for the text. This allows me to independently turn on/off extra data about the space (such as the Area, Room Dimensions, or Occupant Load). In the screenshot I've attached, for example, only the top 2 lines of text are on the none class. The last 3 lines of text are on unique IDEN-DAT1,2,...etc. classes. After updating to SP3, all of the space label text is permanently displaying regardless of on/off visibility of these sub-classes. Is this supposed to work this way now? This had been a very simple and consistent way for me to control label info.

Please help! This has wrecked my drawings!

thanks,

Matt

1485703316_ScreenShot2019-03-27at10_49_14AM.thumb.png.d3f3198039f3fe8c0444e3710c321937.png

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Posted (edited)
On 3/27/2019 at 6:57 AM, Jim Wilson said:

For anyone still getting the failure to redraw in 2019 SP3, do you get this on BOTH the Best Performance and Best Compatibility modes?

 

OK, so what's the recommendation here? Is the high setting a decoy? All things considered, should we all just use the middle setting? Would we really notice a hit to graphics performance if the tradeoff is improved stability? How much of my time drawing is really taking advantage of that high setting? 20%?

 

I dream of a VW with a single unified workspace for all disciplines (with Menus for each modality) and no GPU settings to fiddle with (just minimum/recommended GPU requirements), and it all just works.

Edited by Mark Aceto
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Posted (edited)
On 3/27/2019 at 10:00 AM, RussU said:

The only failure I experience in sp3 is title blocks vanishing (They highlight when hovered, but are gone)
Win10

Will test both and let you know.

I'm seeing the same thing. A restart does resolve the issue.

 

I'm also getting an new buggy thing where the "make all attributes by class" will not work, nor will the eye dropper, or the magic wand. A restart solves the issue, but as a fix this ain't a fix if I'm having to restart at odd intervals.

 

Also by "restart" I mean shut the computron down & restart the whole magilla. (This is take 10-15 minutes BTW) 

 

The SP does not fix the "rotated not rotated" ghost image issue where an object that's rotated does not appear to be rotated, but has to me nudged to magically reappear.

 

Sorry @RussU , I kinda walked all over your issue.

Edited by Jim Smith
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11 hours ago, Mark Aceto said:

 

OK, so what's the recommendation here? Is the high setting a decoy? All things considered, should we all just use the middle setting? Would we really notice a hit to graphics performance if the tradeoff is improved stability? How much of my time drawing is really taking advantage of that high setting? 20%?

 

I dream of a VW with a single unified workspace for all disciplines (with Menus for each modality) and no GPU settings to fiddle with (just minimum/recommended GPU requirements), and it all just works.

 

My theory is that the performance/stability settings are there as a placebo, as changing them has never solved any problem for me!

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@Jim Smith You kinda did!

My mum used to say, "There's always someone in the world that''s got it worse than you", Then she'd clip me around the ear and tell me to stop moaning.

 

I've got a new machine turning up today, which is essentially the same spec as my laptop, but it's a monster desktop. I'm very much looking forward to testing VW on the new machine and doing a side by side comparison so see what it throws up.

 

@line-weight The graphics card spec needed for the VGM isn't that modern. I worked out a cut-off of Geforce 600 series to use performance, 200 for the middle setting and anything lower for the compatibilty setting. (Based on OpenGL 2 requirements) Meaning that for most systems within the last 4-5 years the performance setting should be your best option.... Don't take that as gospel, My mac mini for example with integrated Intel HD gfx, isn't up to spec - simple as that.

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15 hours ago, Mark Aceto said:

OK, so what's the recommendation here? Is the high setting a decoy? All things considered, should we all just use the middle setting? Would we really notice a hit to graphics performance if the tradeoff is improved stability? How much of my time drawing is really taking advantage of that high setting? 20%?

 

I dream of a VW with a single unified workspace for all disciplines (with Menus for each modality) and no GPU settings to fiddle with (just minimum/recommended GPU requirements), and it all just works.


This is only half to help people workaround the issue. The other half of myself and a lot of other employees asking about this setting is that in Best Performance, pretty much all graphical glitches would be the fault of the VGM and significantly narrow down what the core problem is and what team needs to work on it. If the issue happens in Best Compatibility but NOT Best Performance, it means its a bug of the old graphic system and not as much of a priority. If it happens in ALL modes, it means that the issue will likely be much harder to track down, but that it is much more urgent that we do so than in the previous example.

Eventually users won't have control over this and it'll only kick in the Compatibility modes when launched on weak hardware and the user will be alerted to this fact. Kind of like a Safe Mode, but that could be awhile off as we are still transitioning systems into the VGM.

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23 hours ago, Jim Smith said:

I'm seeing the same thing. A restart does resolve the issue.

 

I'm also getting an new buggy thing where the "make all attributes by class" will not work, nor will the eye dropper, or the magic wand. A restart solves the issue, but as a fix this ain't a fix if I'm having to restart at odd intervals.

 

Also by "restart" I mean shut the computron down & restart the whole magilla. (This is take 10-15 minutes BTW) 

 

The SP does not fix the "rotated not rotated" ghost image issue where an object that's rotated does not appear to be rotated, but has to me nudged to magically reappear.

 

Sorry @RussU , I kinda walked all over your issue.

 

Looking forward to SP3.1

 

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17 hours ago, line-weight said:

My theory is that the performance/stability settings are there as a placebo, as changing them has never solved any problem for me!

 

"This is hi-fi. High fidelity. Know what that means? That means this is the highest quality fidelity."

 

image.thumb.png.1af7e454cf478f19b597872315f4a478.png

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On 3/20/2019 at 4:20 PM, Jim Wilson said:

There is, I believe that tech@vectorworks.net is the best contact to get yours. They customize them based on what modules/products you use.

????? I'm quite puzzled by that statement as there used to be a single installer for all VW versions that updated just the components in use based on the serial number. Never had issues with that through VW2018. Why is this no longer the case for VW 2019? The download page for updaters does show VW2019 as a choice but nothing is listed/available for download.

 

As someone else mentioned, having to do the full download on every machine individually is a bit cumbersome compared to downloading the installer once and then distribute it internally.

 

Not to mention that I used to use the downloadable updaters from the vectorworks.net website instead having to wait several weeks or longer for the locally distributed US version updater to be available. No SP3 yet here, and SP3.1 is scheduled to be released locally by the end of this month while I need the fixes now if possible as I've been wasting almost an entire day on slowness after the recent SP2 minor additional update (before this minor additional SP2 update it worked without issues on this particular drawing)

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48 minutes ago, Art V said:

????? I'm quite puzzled by that statement as there used to be a single installer for all VW versions that updated just the components in use based on the serial number. Never had issues with that through VW2018. Why is this no longer the case for VW 2019?


This is only if they want an Offline Updater, meaning that the single installer normal users work with isn't an option, since that installer requires an internet connection in order to bring down all the content libraries. 

Separate downloads for the service packs are unrelated to that, you can just run the Update Vectorworks application now and it will update itself and give you the version you want, and the advanced options within it allow you to roll back to older SPs if you need to.

I can't speak to any workarounds that were intended to get around rolling region releases however.

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6 minutes ago, Jim Wilson said:

Separate downloads for the service packs are unrelated to that, you can just run the Update Vectorworks application now and it will update itself and give you the version you want, and the advanced options within it allow you to roll back to older SPs if you need to.

 

So there are not going to be downloadable offline service pack installers anymore from VW2019 onward? I.e. each install will have to get everything from the internet, meaning downloading the same content over and over again for every machine that has VW installed.

 

The Update Vectorworks application you mention is a bit of a hit and miss and only gets downloaded if there is a new SP. Re-running it seems to be a bit of a hit and miss experience (at least it is right now) if you didn't delete the updater after the SP got installed (which I think most people would do because they may think it is no longer necessary).

 

I'm not sure all this will be considered an improvement for those on slow or otherwise limited internet connections or offices having multiple seats installed on a desktop and a laptop.

 

Is there a way to keep the downloaded files from being automatically deleted from the download location so that those can be used for updating a 2nd computer or for a reinstall at a later time?

 

(Going to restart for the umpteenth time today because of VW breaking down)

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1 minute ago, Art V said:

I.e. each install will have to get everything from the internet, meaning downloading the same content over and over again for every machine that has VW installed.

No, it only downloads the difference in the base tech, then the new content on its own. With the old system, you downloaded the installer whole each time as well as the changed content for Vectorworks. With the new one, the only time it redownloads the installer is if we rebuilt it for some reason, if its the same as it was last time, it just downloads the difference. 

Also with the old system, the installers ALWAYS included the guts of previous installers with them, so that SP6 for instance was able top update SP1 through SP5. The new system checks what you currently have and just downloads what it needs and nothing extra.

 

 

4 minutes ago, Art V said:

The Update Vectorworks application you mention is a bit of a hit and miss and only gets downloaded if there is a new SP.


If theres no new SP to install, what would you expect it to be doing? The updater itself now comes with the full installation of Vectorworks and remains inside the application folder always instead of making you download another and another over and over. I think I'm just misunderstanding what you're seeing.

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9 minutes ago, Art V said:

I.e. each install will have to get everything from the internet, meaning downloading the same content over and over again for every machine that has VW installed.

OH if you mean the library/resource content, that can be copied directly from one machine to another if desired. You only need to update the resources on one machine then share them with the others.

I used the term "content" to refer to the guts of a Vectorworks update a few times and I shouldn't have been so sloppy with my word choice, apologies.

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10 minutes ago, Jim Wilson said:

If theres no new SP to install, what would you expect it to be doing? The updater itself now comes with the full installation of Vectorworks and remains inside the application folder always instead of making you download another and another over and over. I think I'm just misunderstanding what you're seeing.

I just restarted because the updater was breaking down for some reason. For the record, when it said there was an SP2 update it downloaded another Updater application and apparently wasn't using the one that was already inside the VW2019 install folder.

 

Here is why I so intensely dislike updaters that download everything from the internet instead of being able to use a downloadable SP containing the whole thing (excl. content libraries)... the updater had to download an update to update itself before it could download updates for VW 😵, or... to be able to use the advanced options (which would a.o. be an option to roll back to a previous SP version if I understood you correctly) and guess what... the updater application fails to update itself!! 😡

 

So as a result I'm getting nowhere, not being able to roll back to before the minor SP2 update/fix nor to install SP3 or whatever so the only option I have is to uninstall VW, reinstall it and then hope it will be possible to update to the second latest SP2 priorto  the very latest SP2 fix/minor build update that now seems to be causing issues.

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19 minutes ago, Jim Wilson said:

OH if you mean the library/resource content, that can be copied directly from one machine to another if desired. You only need to update the resources on one machine then share them with the others.

No, I actually meant the update resources for updating the application itself, which probably are an installer and the required components to install. If it includes the content libraries as well in the download then that is a plus as that would make it easier to copy it to another machine instead of clogging up the internet connection again.

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Posted (edited)
On 3/28/2019 at 2:39 PM, Mark Aceto said:

I dream of a VW with a single unified workspace for all disciplines (with Menus for each modality) and no GPU settings to fiddle with (just minimum/recommended GPU requirements), and it all just works.

 

On the topic of streamlining continuity, it's one thing to have the option to enter class/viewport/drawing info in multiple places:

  • OIP top
  • OIP bottom
  • OIP render tab
  • Resource library symbol
  • Symbol within a symbol
  • Navigation pallette
  • Tool/organization/class settings
  • Attributes palette class settings
  • and on and on... 

 

...but to have to enter that info consistently in all places is insane. It would be nice if checking the "Use at creation" box actually worked but it doesn't, so I have to keep a mental checklist of all the places I need to hunt down to get a stick of truss to display the texture I set for that class. And VW2019 just added more options (many of which were not announced or documented, so they're just easter eggs of counter productivity).

 

I spend so much time:

  • Hunting for where an object class hasn't been updated
  • Naming viewports
  • Renaming viewports
  • Manually reentering title block revision data over and over again on multiple plates
    • And why is the title block dialog forked into 2 options (screenshot attached)???

 

...that I'm not actually working; just playing a game of Whac-A-Mole.

 

I don't want disappearing AI context menu options. I want fewer options, and consistent choices that simply work. We don't need 3 different tree tools. We need 1 that does the job of all 3. If I update the class somewhere, I expect it to update everywhere. Dr. Frankenstein is turning this into bloatware, and I honestly just want the interface to get out of my way.

 

Solution: Less Friction, More Productivity

 

While we're at it, can we please make Service Select a monthly bill like every other service subscription?

 

Screen Shot 2019-03-27 at 3.50.03 PM.png

Edited by Mark Aceto
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