Exporting groups

[Marietta]

Now (in VW 11.0.1 & 11.5) when I export groups to autocad, autocad automatically names these groups (group-1, etc.). Now, if I export another drawing to autocad with groups and this drawing is inserted into the original autocad drawing, it would again name these groups starting with group-1. It would then replace the second group-1 with the original group-1 and so one. This gave some interesting results as you can imagine. Before, I never concerned myself with the number of groups in my drawings when converting to autocad - they didn't get numbered. Without ungrouping everything (sometimes I don't know what has been grouped), is there anything I can do to avoid this?

[Marietta]

I just want to reiterate this question, as there are a lot of queries at this point in time. Has anyone else come across this problem?

[islandmon]

You just described one of the primary concerns of any transportable database. There are hundreds of apps designed to tackle these issues for the OS but none from programs like VW !

Since all data is 'field' and all 'fields' are declared, how does one prevent the overwriting of data ?

Minicad had to tackle these 'naming' issues by setting up exclusionary rules for class, layer, symbol, hatch, etc...

Also a corrupted field will take down the entire file structure.

This is called programming ... : )

[Marietta]

Thanks. The funny thing is, I never came across this problem before VW 11. Our autocad operator says that the groups did not come across numbered.

[jan15]

The Autocad "Group" isn't like the Vectorworks Group. It's practically useless. The best thing would be to do a Custom Selection of all groups and Ungroup them before exporting to DWG.

I don't know why you didn't have the problem in the past, since Autocad has always assigned names to groups and required the user to manage them by those names. It has the concept of an "unnamed" group, but "unnamed" groups actually have names, names which begin with an asterisk. The only way you can edit a group, whether named or unnamed, is by selecting it from a list of group names. If it's an "unnamed" goup, that just makes it a little harder to figure out what the name is (by checking "Include Unnamed", then clicking on "Find Name", then memorizing the name, and then going back to the Grouping dialog box and picking it from a list of all names and "un-named" names). Typical Autodesk logic.

[ 03-18-2005, 12:25 AM: Message edited by: jan15 ]

[Guest]

The change in naming to exporting with the names because AutoCAD doesn't let you edit anonymous blocks. You have to explode them and then recreate them. To solve this problem in which people voiced to us, it was changed.

My suggestion is to use Xref's to reference in the part of the drawing you need from file 2 into file 1 while in AutoCAD.

[Marietta]

Thanks Katie

I guess sometimes when you solve one problem, sometgin else pops up. I think the xrefing would be the easiest way to go around this problem.

[Marietta]

Katie

One other thought. Our autocad operator says she had no problems when we exported from VW 10 versions. She didn't mind having anonymous blocks thta you can't modify. However, now if she inserts a drawing or file that has groups within groups in VW, autocad won't ask to replace or rename the groups or blocks within the main group or blocks. In this instance, we got the blocks exchanged with the earlier blocks (e.g. a paver replaced with a shrub, etc.).

Is there any way to have an option when exporting so that we can either name the groups or not name them depending on the circumstances? In a lot of instances, we don't want to xref every small file, especially when the client wants just one autocad file to contend with.

[Marietta]

Katie

I just want to reiterate the problem we have with goups converted to autocad as numbered blocks (in version VW11). We have some large projects coming up that we will use all our cad operators (both vectorworks and autocad), plus we will need to exchange a lot of files with other consultants that are working in autocad. We will be working seaparately on parts of the drawings and then put them together for the final set which may be either in autocad or vectorworks. This project would probably require a lot of changing back and forth. Since a lot of our details, symbols, etc. has many groups within them, it would be very time consuming to ungroup everything and we would probably miss some. Also, xreferencing small pieces that would need to be combined into one final drawing would end up with the same problem - numbered blocks in new files that would be changed with earlier numbered blocks. This could be a real nightmare with coordination if the other consultants do not xref our drawings, but instead want to insert them.

Also, changing back to VW10 and then converting to autocad loses the advantages of converting from VW11. Is there any script or something we can do that would either find all groups in a drawing to ungroup them or name those groups? Ungrouping would be the best solution I think.

Do you know why some autocad blocks import as groups and some as symbols into vectorworks? Before, I didn't worry about that, but now with the problem in naming groups, this could become a real issue when changing files back and forth.

[mike m oz]

Katie -

A way around this dilemma would be to:

- have the DWG export routine automatically ungroup groups; or

- have the DWG export routine automatically convert groups to 'blocks' (after ungrouping them first of course).

If it is not deemed desireable to have this happen all the time perhaps it can be a chooseable option in the DWG export dialog box.

[ 05-20-2005, 10:13 PM: Message edited by: mike m oz ]

[jan15]

When I export to Autocad, I get rid of all groups -- including ones nested in other groups or in symbols -- by repeating this sequence several times:

-Select All

-Symbol to Group

-Ungroup

(Using a keyboard macro, I press one key to repeat that sequence 5 times.)

When I import an Autocad file, I do the same, and then I put the whole import on a single layer by itself. But of course I'm only importing consultants' files to use as backgrounds.

To actually work on the same file in two programs, going back and forth and keeping the file editable by both, you really have to give up the features that only one of them supports. The Vectorworks operator has to give up groups, surfaces, solid fills, layering, and scale. The Autocad operator has to give up ARCHQUIK.SHX

[mike m oz]

Jan - this does work. Most experienced users will have been down this route.

Surely the point is though that you shouldn't have to!

[jan15]

Sorry, Mike, I didn't mean my posting as a reply to you. It was for Marietta, who I think was looking for a workaround rather than submitting a wish list item. I should have made that clear by addressing it to him.

Yes, of course, what you suggested would be nice. But as with 95 percent of the suggestions for new features, I weigh the relative ease of making do with what we've got now (facilitated, as I said, by a macro handler) against the more pressing need to reduce bugs (and the possibility for more of them with any new feature), and against what I perceive as the most important issue, which is the general decline in speed and responsiveness of recent versions.

Obviously, there are limited resources available when trying to acquire all the features of a much more expensive product while keeping many features that it doesn't have and at the same time trying to dumb down those features in order to interface with it. Given that limit, the DWG export utility is really pretty amazing already.

[Marietta]

Thanks guys.

Jan, when selecting all and exporting symbols to groups and then ungrouping, you would also loose all your symbols which would export fine. I don't know how to write macros. I've found that for the most part VW is good for those of us that don't really want to get into programming or macros. How would I write a macro to find all groups, including those within symbols and ungroup them?

I also agree that the exporting portion should include options as Mike suggested. Right now, I feel that VW has gone backwards in this respect, by losing part of the export procedure that worked fine to address a problem that some users have found.

[jan15]

Marietta,

Macros are an easy way to customize software, and could solve 90 percent of the problems people describe in the Wish List forum.

It's not like programming. It's like recording a song and playing it back, but instead of a song you record a sequence of keystrokes. You press a hot key to start recording, then work in the program normally, then press the hot key again to stop recording. A window pops up to ask what hot key you want to assign to this macro, and then whenever you press that specified hot key the same sequence of keystrokes that you recorded is fed to the computer as if you had pressed all those keys, only it happens in an instant.

But you have to buy a macro utility to do it. I use Macro Express, $40 with a 30 day free trial. If I'd known about it at the time I would have bought Keyboard Express, $25 and same free trial.

[Marietta]

Thanks

I'll give it a try.